Marty34

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 04:53 PM) Yes. Are we going to let everyone who is arbitration-eligible walk? Are they going to have a $60M payroll in 2017?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 04:52 PM) Prevent? No. "Make it so that they had zero margin for error and every single decision they made had to turn out right, which is typically very unlikely in baseball"? Yeah, it would do that. You must not have seen their future payroll obligations.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 04:49 PM) How about "There's a risk that Tanaka isn't a top-of-the-rotation starter and if that were the case then a 7/$150 deal would be an enormously bad, franchise-crippling deal for the White Sox. Thus, you must be 100% absolutely certain that he's an ace right out of the gate because the downside risk is enormous". It's like putting all your retirement money on red. It might work...but you better darn well know it's going to come up red. Have you seen the Sox future payroll obligations?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 04:49 PM) That wasnt his argument at all What was it?

QUOTE (shakes @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 03:21 PM) And the Sox strength is finding and developing pitchers. Why spend insane money, on a maybe with a huge amount of questions marks, when you can fill multiple holes when it is time to compete? Spend money because a player is available who could set you up for contention for years to come. Have you seen the Sox payroll obligations for the next 6 years, Tanaka wouldn't prevent them from competing even if he turned out to be awful.

QUOTE (shakes @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 03:21 PM) That's a whole lot of hypothetical. Again, Tanaka will potentially require 7 years and $150 million. For a guy who hasn't started more than 23 games in a season and scouts are split on whether he is even a top of the rotation starter....let alone an 'Ace'. He has had declining velocity and doesn't strike out a whole lot of hitters in a far inferior league, and historically pitchers from that league have not stayed healthy or succeeded long term here. But, who cares the White Sox can eat a 7 year contract when according to some, you specifically, have far too many holes to compete right now. Brilliant. And the Sox strength is finding and developing pitchers. Why spend insane money, on a maybe with a huge amount of questions marks, when you can fill multiple holes when it is time to compete? You're argument must be that Tanaka isn't a top-of-the-rotation starter because the idea that the Sox couldn't absorb a 7yr/$150M deal given their their payroll obligations going forward just isn't a good one.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 12:12 PM) I think that right there makes this entire conversation moot. I don't see the Sox even considering a contract like that. Not when there are more important holes to fill. There are few things in MLB as valuable a top-of-the-rotation starter. The Sox have Sale and the #3 pick in the draft, signing Tanaka would give them a chance to have three top-of-the-rotation starters by 2017 for the princely sum of less than $40M. With their future payroll obligations, it's absolutely a no-brainer to competitively bid for Tanaka.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 11:58 AM) If 3 of the 4 work out, you then have money to replace the one that does not. If none of them do, then you're f***ed anyways. Payroll obligations over the next three years: 2015 $45M 2016 $38M 2017 $24M Add Tanaka at $25M per and there is still plenty of room. Tanaka would also alow them to deal Danks in 2015 if he has a bounce back year.

QUOTE (shakes @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 11:06 AM) It's highly unlikely you can get him for that price. Some reports are saying the bidding will go for 7 years and could top $150 million. That's as reckless as it gets to give an unknown pitcher 7 years. I know he is 25 but I don't care. He is a complete unknown and no scouts believe he is in the same league as Darvish. Let him be someone else's crazy contract and spread that money around on a couple of upgrades over the next couple of years. I would have felt safer with the Cano contract than that, if the reports are true. Who are these upgrades you write of? Point is, if the current core flops these "upgrades" aren't going to win them anything.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 10:41 AM) I have no problem with them pursuing Tanaka, but this is absolutely the worst argument for it. You simply never know what need might emerge. Maybe Davidson busts and David Wright or Evan Longoria become available for trade. Maybe they develop the assets and save the money to pursue a player like Mike Trout or Bryce Harper. Maybe whoever they draft 3rd this year is extended in 2016 because he's that good. You simply don't know what opportunities will present themself, so spending just to spend is an absolutely terrible philosophy that gets teams in all kinds of trouble. If a big-time player is available over the next year or two (at least) via trade, there are probably 20 teams better positioned than the Sox to acquire them due to organizational depth. If they believe in this core Tanaka is the perfect fit (if he is as advertised.)

If not Tanaka, who better to spend their money on over the next 6 years? I think it's a longshot they win the bidding, but they have the resources to make a competitive offer.

If his workout is impressive enough to sign him, use the closer role as incentive for Ryan Madson.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 15, 2013 -> 03:10 PM) This guy's made it clear he has a vendetta against Hawkins. A lot of his posts are just railing the kid. Or he just think he's not very good at baseball. You know, the same reason why people rail on Beckham for example.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2013 -> 03:56 PM) But "a second round pick" is a pretty high price for a team like the White Sox, who aren't obviously aiming to win next year, to pay. I'm willing to give that up in addition to a big contract when I think it's the last piece on a roster, but that should be a huge deterrent for a team that isn't in win-now mode. The Sox went for "Major League ready" prospects which gives them an older core so they should consider using the discount that the 2nd round pick will give them on Jimenez. Given their future salary obligations there's no reason why they should not make a serious run for Tanaka though.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2013 -> 01:29 PM) I have zero interest in adding a "4-5th starter" right now. I like the 5+ we open the season with, it's structured exactly as it should be for this team. Bring the young guys in an d play them. We actually have them in the rotation...play them! Agreed, a 4-5 starter is a waste, but isn't now the perfect time to spend money on a top-of-the-rotation type like Tanaka. Or even take a chance on a guy like Jimenez who has the stuff to be a top of the rotation starter and his price tag will be held down because it will cost a second round pick. With the exception of Garcia the core the Sox are building around aren't real young, they have to hit the ground running as such money should be spent now to supplement them.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 14, 2013 -> 06:11 PM) But this is pretty much the same argument that would have been used for bringing Josh Hamilton, Albert Pujols or Zach Greinke on board. None of them alone would have made the White Sox close to a playoff team in 2013 or 2014 (based on their performances) and certainly would have hamstrung us later on down the line, as the Dunn and Rios deals did. The Sox would be nuts to pass on Greinke if all they had to do was pay his salary. If they believe in this core, who are they going to spend their money on?

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 14, 2013 -> 04:17 PM) Until 5 years down the road when the Sox are actually competing and need to add a player or two to put them over the top but can't cause Tanaka is broken and they're stuck with his contract. If it's going to take 5 years for the Sox to compete WITH Tanaka, who are they going to be paying large sums of money to?

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 14, 2013 -> 03:44 PM) Ya I'm not giving a pitcher a 6-7 year deal for 100 plus. The Sox don't have anyone they need to pay that money to. Right now is the time to spend that money on one guy because it wouldn't be an albatross.

QUOTE (staxx @ Dec 14, 2013 -> 01:47 PM) if that happens we could very well see ourselves close to the playoffs. Not with the current pitching staff. They need another starter and they could use the money saved by the cost-controlled core they are putting together to sign a top-of-the-rotation type.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 14, 2013 -> 11:54 AM) I don't know if Eaton can sustain Lofton's numbers through a 17 year career but that is a good comparison for Eaton if all goes well. Expecting Abreu to become the best hitter on earth is a stretch. I think a better comparison, while not perfect, would be a Billy Butler with more power and a little less AVG/OBP. I give Avisail Garcia the wait-and-see approach. The Magglio the Sox had from '99-'04 would be a perennial MVP candidate today. I've always liked the Juan Encarnacion comparisons as the most likely. If Garcia went .275/.320/.440 with 19 HRs and 70 RBIs I would be very happy. This would not be good. I'm not sure who to compare him to, but he has to be better than Encarnacion.

If not Tanaka, who is this team going to be spending money on in the foreseeable future? If he is as advertised he's a franchise-changing signing for the Sox. Of course, they're not going to go from a franchise record $68M contract to a contract of north of $120M. Having said that, the Dodgers probably won't be outbid.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 09:53 PM) They've finished 5th in their division 4 years in a row. If a team does that and there's any question as to whether or not it will lead to sustained success then the method clearly is incredibly flawed. It's putting all your eggs in one basket for sure, but if these position players live up to their expectations they'll have sustained success.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 09:09 PM) If the Cubs can eat far more money in bad contracts then it's crazy for them to lose for that long. This is true, but if the rebuilding leads to sustained success it won't matter. A problem with their rebuild is Baez can't stick at short and I don't think Bryant will stick at third.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 05:10 PM) It would be stunning if the Sox outbid the Dodgers, Yankees, Angels, Cubs, etc. for Tanaka. This is a much different situation than with Abreu, where a lot, if not all, of the big market teams didn't need a 1B. No doubt, but there's no reason the Sox shouldn't be in the $160M range.

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 04:30 PM) I'd LOVE this off-season (not that I already don't like the previous moves.)! But rolling out a rotation of: Sale, Tanaka, Quintana, Johnson, Danks would be great on opening day. A Tanaka signing if he is as advertised could set this team in great position for the longterm. 2014: Sale, Tanaka, Quintana, Johnson, Danks, draft Hoffman or Kolek 2015: Sale, Tanaka, Quintana, Johnson, trade Danks after he rebounds from surgery 2016: Sale, Tanaka, Quintana, Johnson, 2017: Sale, Tanaka, Johnson, Kolek/Hoffman, trade Quintana 2018 Sale, Kolek/Hoffman, Tanaka, Johnson. Not bad.