Marty34

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 06:38 PM) So based on the fact that you're probably right about this....we should outbid people at the lower end of this year's SP market because...? It will save them money.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 06:34 PM) I don't. They just spent $68 million on an unknown, and were willing to spend $140M more had they landed MT. That's $208M bucks! We've got great payroll flexibility to go after one of those top guys, if that's our big need for '15 and beyond. The were outbid on Tanaka though and the biggest spenders weren't in on Abreau.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 06:29 PM) Maybe Paulino/Surkamp/Rienzo turn into something this year. Maybe a version of first year Humber (who we should then promptly trade). Maybe Beck, Danish or possibly Kolek/Hoffman turns into a big thing. We can afford to wait. But why wait? It's not like next year will be the year the Sox outbid anyone for the top of the SP market.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 06:13 PM) He has a really big curveball and a fastball in the low 90's. He needs to learn a number of things...to change speeds on both pitches and to improve his control with both pitches, but both of those are learnable with time. He doesn't have Chris Sale's makeup, but if he can learn how to "pitch" he has the ability to be a middle of the rotation starter with time. He'll be 26 y.o. next year. I guess you think he'll be that mid-rotation starter for the next rebuild.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 05:12 PM) Those pitchers have much better profiles than Santana or Jimenez. If Santana or Jimenez looked like those guys, they would not be bargains any year including this one. And the timing right now is crappy anyway, given our timeline. Jimenez could be a real bargain if Garza only went for $52M.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 04:26 PM) [/b] We really don't know what the market will command. Garza might be relatively cheap because GM's finally came to their senses. They ALL might be relatively cheap, this year and next, due to the escalating perceived value of the draft pick. I look back at our last three 2nd rounders, EJohnson, Beck and Danish, and I wouldn't want to part with any of them - this year's 2nd round pick will be higher than any of those, in a supposedly deeper draft. I think it's safe to say the Sox will be outbid for the top of the market, Lester, Scherzer, Bailey, Masterson, and Shields.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 03:56 PM) Furthermore...if hypothetically we don't spend $12 million this year, and the result would be appreciably the same (perhaps the difference between 75 and 78 wins or something like that), then we're left with an extra $12 million to spend next year. That could, for example, be the difference between offering a pitcher $12 million a year next year and $16 million a year. If we want to spend money on a pitcher...saving some money now could offer us the funds to target one of the real serious guys next year. Problem is the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Rangers, and Cubs will be looking for starters too. It will be a Tanaka situation all over again for the Sox. Why spend $16M or more next year for a pitcher you can get for $12M or less this year.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 05:48 PM) How is it worse than last year? Axelrod started 20 games last year and now he's like 8th on the depth chart. No Peavy or Santiago.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 05:17 PM) Which guys are you counting as major-league ready? Abreu? Eaton? Viciedo? Davidson? Webb? Semien? Petricka? Phegley? Flowers? Neito? We could legitimately have >50% of our starting lineup covered by rookies this season. 2/3 if you throw in the catcher's position. Right.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 05:09 PM) But if we aren't going to make the playoffs next year, why artificially inflate several victories and drop team out of lower draft spot? That would get us cheaper talent in the long run, and would allow us to wait even longer. The core of this team is at least major league ready. If drafting is being counted on to build this team then Sale should have been put on the trade market.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 04:55 PM) And this is bad why? It will cost them more in terms of money or talent the longer they wait to address it.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 04:40 PM) The Dodgers, Cubs, DBacks, Astros, and Mariners were all willing to spend a ton on a starter, and that's not including anybody else who may open the purse strings a little bit more to bring in one of the remaining pitchers. It's just not worth it. If they stand pat with this rotation big trouble ahead.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 04:21 PM) Probably not, but the rotation is not in particular need to be upgraded right now. May as well save that money to figure out what holes do need to be filled (thats what she said) Save money buy buying a pitcher in this year's market. The big spenders are likely out.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) No FA pitcher + successful major league innings from 1 of Surkamp/Rienzo/Paulino allows the White Sox to keep beck at AAA next season and still have money available to upgrade the catcher's spot or other weaknesses without having to trade Danks/Quintana to do it. I don't think catcher will be the only position that needs upgrading.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 04:06 PM) Except for the part where we actually see if any of those guys can get big league hitters out. And potentially the part where we have money to spend to fill holes next year. FA pitcher + Beck allows them to deal a Danks or Quintana next offseason.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 04:00 PM) Then the White Sox lose games in a rebuilding year with a roster loaded with rookies already and replace those guys next offseas, or potentially even later in the season if Beck performs at AA (as happened last year btw). Signing a free-agent pitcher prevents none of that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 03:39 PM) But you'll never figure that out if they don't get to face big league hitters. What happens if they face big league hitting and aren't very good?

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 03:30 PM) We'd be wasting potentially free (nothing is free but for the most part) value out of Paulino/Rienzo/Surkamp. In no way do I expect Surkamp to have a Quintana like turn around in his career but if we sign a Garza type we will never know. Paulino is a guy that I can see thriving with Coop. Very high K/9 numbers, seemed to be figuring it out in KC before he got injured. He already has great movement on his fastball that sits around 95 MPH. His stats are skewed from his inability to pitch out of the bullpen. If any of those three can pitch they'll find a place for them.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 03:16 PM) I agree. Sale and Quintana are anchors. Johnson should become a rotation anchor. Danks has us financially strapped and has potential to be good again now that he is through with his recovery period. Take the best of Paulino/Surkamp/Rienzo and try to make value out of them out of the 5 spot. If all of what you say becomes reality, I still don't see the harm of signing a FA pitcher.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 03:10 PM) I think signing veteran guys in their rotation is the exact opposite of what the white sox should be doing right now. Too many holes not to sign someone of substance.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) He also has had control issues in his past and could just as easily be an absolutely terrible pitcher again. I'd rather the Sox be done than have them sign anybody else at this point. They made enough noise this offseason. Also, the back end being ugly is OK. The Sox are rebuilding this year anyways. No need to spend money just to spend. I think it would be better to address the rotation this year in an effort to save money. As shown by the Tanaka pursuit, it's going to be difficult to get a true top-of-the-rotation via free-agency. If Jimenez is terrible at least he'll be relatively cheap.

Back end of the rotation could be ugly. I wouldn't mind them taking a chance on Jimenez as he'll be cheaper due to draft pick compensation, just turned 30, and has the stuff to be a front-of-the-rotation guy.

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 02:35 PM) Truth. Spread it out to address other needs and let someone else roll the dice-k . If it works out, congrats. If not, wouldn't wanna be ya. Spend it on who?

I thought Jason Bere's addition to the rotation would eventually put the Sox starters on a par with the Braves.

QUOTE (Real @ Jan 13, 2014 -> 07:29 PM) do people really think Jerry would allocate this much money to a pitcher? a pitcher whos never thrown a single pitch in the MLB? just seems extremely unlikely to me it's really not outlandish when you consider that (unfortunately) the Sox have no one to lock up for the foreseeable future. One of the perks of being awful with a bad farm system.