fathom

IIRC, didn't the Sox have a chance to take Hunter Morris instead of Wilkins?

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 10:49 PM) Seems like Viciedo is a better second half player/hitter. I don't want to move him. +1

QUOTE (southsidepride15 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 09:41 PM) Your statement is a very tough one to argue, obviously stranding runners is never good. All the games that JFP gave up one run and the offense threw up a goose-egg, well it's going to happen, it's the nature of the game and over 162 you're going to have that happen every now and then. That said, despite the opinion of some in this thread, we certaintly didn't lose last night (or any other game) because Kong was hitting clean-up. We lost because the entire offense (save Youk) didn't show up against some tool that we should have scored 5-6 off. It would be nice for Konerko to get a clutch hit, as it's been forever since he had a meaningful RBI. He had some golden opportunities of late to really impact a game late, and he failed every time. Hopefully once he gets a big hit, it will get the monkey off his back and he can relax a bit. One could argue there's been a few games where if Rios was hitting 4th and not Konerko, the Sox could have had a better chance to win (ie: game vs Cardinals where Konerko hit into game-ending double play with tying run at 3rd).

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 05:09 PM) I really have no inside info, just a brother-in-law who works in sports at WTMJ in Milwaukee and he texted yesterday to say he was surprised to hear the Sox are aggressively after Greinke. Maybe just kicking the tires like everybody else? Sounds like the Cubs are going to get some good offers on Dempster, and I could see the Tigers making a big splash by getting Barney as well and sending back the likes of Turner and Castellanos. Talk about a game changer... Castellanos should have more value than both Dempster and Barney combined. He'd be an amazing return for the Cubs.

I wonder if Hawk is saying yes or no to KW in regards to going after Greinke

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 05:06 PM) Move him to 6 or 7. If he continues for a prolonged period, you've got bigger problems than his feelings. I still would be shocked if his wrist(s) isn't bothering him. He cannot get around and hook anything with authority, and his only home run in a while was against the terrible Adam Warren. He might say publically that he feels ok, but his swing looks awfully similar to the few games he struggled in before having to get the wrist treatment.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 03:55 PM) Paulie is still a dangerous hitter, slump or not. He brings something to the plate every time he is up. Moving him back because of a slump could affect the way other teams scout him and handle the rest of teh White Sox hitters. It smacks as desperation. And for a first place team, that's not what you want to show the rest of your division. I know what you are saying, shack, but it is shortsighted. This isn't just a week long slump, this is going on almost 2 months. With how often Youk and Dunn have got on base, it's created a ton of RBI chances for him and he has failed big time in those situations. If no other players on the team were performing well, then you keep him in the 4th spot. Putting Rios 2nd or 3rd and moving Dunn to 4th makes a lot of sense, especially by putting more of a gap between ADA and Dunn to hopefully avoid a lefty reliever being brought in to face 3 batters (ADA, Youk, Dunn).

QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 04:36 AM) Before the Sox go and mortgage the future on Grienke or Hamels, they should see where they are at in 7-10 days, and whether or not Detroit gets Dempster or Garza or maybe even one of the two aces on the market, as well as where they are in the standings. IF on 7/26/12 they have fallen out of first place and are greater than 2 GB of Detroit, or maybe even in third place, they should sell instead of buy. As a matter of fact, looking at the schedule, they probably shouldn't make a move until 7/29, after which two games with Texas have been played. With Detroit on a hot streak, and per Rongey Floyd likely going on the DL, not having more than 2 or 3 reliable bullpen guys and 3/5 of the opening day rotation hurt or lousy or both, the Sox may be better suited selling than buying. I wouldn't count on either Danks or Floyd the rest of the season given their injuries, and with the young guys in the bullpen getting hit hard recently(Reed included) it might be tough to hold on to first by the end of the month. IF Danks and Floyd were healthy and pitching to their 3 yr averages, then I'd think differently but right now quite frankly I think the pitching outside of Sale and Peavy blows. You might get good performances from these guys once in a while, (like Axelrod's tonight) but those may be few and far between. I am of the opinion to wait at least 7 days to do anything. The Sox are in the toughest part of their schedule right now, and it could be the difference between buying or selling. I may change my tune by next Monday given the play of the team. In order for that to happen they would have to take 2 out of the remaining 3 in Boston and at least 2 of 3 in Detroit. Right now I think there is a possibility that they could be swept by both teams. And I didn't even mention that they are not scoring runs right now. I disagree about the Sox becoming sellers, as by the time the deadline comes around, people would classify it as White Flag 2.0. I agree with the rest of the post though, good job

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 04:32 AM) start with Viciedo and Castro. Since these team's are shying away I'd expect the offers aren't pouring in. The Brewers need a hitter at first base, no? To me, that seems like a ton for a rental with a lot of red flags right now. Brewers just had a terrible loss though, so they're one game closer to having to decide what to do.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 03:29 AM) I think Quintana could be on that list. I wonder if Axelrod would be of interest to any NL teams. Seems like a guy that could be fairly serviceable in the NL. I know we always bash these guys...then they end up in NL SR's and represent themselves fairly well. Padres always pitch guys like that. For some reason, I've thought all along that local boy Gregorson would be Kenny's relief acquisition. After seeing Volquez's terrible walk numbers this year, I want nothing to do with him.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 03:25 AM) The difference is that Kenny will trade the players other GMs won't. Thing is, in the Sox organization, the only players that I think "other GMs won't trade" are Viciedo and Sale. Reed is close to that list, but relievers don't tend to have the same prestige.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 03:23 AM) Which makes Greinke perfect for the Sox because they can't compete with any other team's farm systems. So who would you give up for Greinke? If you say Viciedo, then I ask you why would the Brewers want him?

Right now, KW's focus should be on a righty set-up man. If Humber can return and Floyd recovers quickly, I think the starting pitching can survive the next few weeks. However, if Ventura keeps having to make the starters throw a ton of pitches to cover for the bad bullpen, then the starting pitching could quickly crumble due to fatigue, injury, etc.

I know this is OT, but Jerry Manuel's shown more emotion in 5 minutes on MLB Tonight than he did during his entire Sox managerial career. I'm not sure if he's trying too hard to be entertaining, but it's quite a different persona.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 04:16 AM) Well no, probably not, because he's likely headed west regardless. But in the meantime, he'll do whatever he can to increase his value, which likely means heading to TX, where he IS a lock to pitch in the playoffs yet again. Meanwhile, you don't need to be tea-leaf reader to know why Hamels is appearing on many more teams' radar, and big markets are staying clear of ZG. Did you see the articles last week? What did the articles say about Greinke?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 03:13 AM) Marty, I very much appreciate your willingness to say what needs to be said at times, but I don't think anyone can question Hamels. Philly is no easy place to play...and even this year, when everyone else on that team has struggled, he's been outstanding. Considering next year is his FA year, were he to be traded, a chance to flourish in the Postseason would only increase his earning potential. I think what he's saying is Hamels wouldn't want to sign an extension to play in Chicago. Every writer seems to suggest this is true, and that he wants a warm weather location.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 03:06 AM) Yeah, I suppose not. I'd rather have Jake then Gavin, if the price is anywhere near the same, I know that much. On the second thought, you guys are right. The hell with Hamels. I don't think I ever want to be on the hook for twentysome million dollars. Let's roll with what we have and a few cheap pieces and take our chances. We have a good thing going here with these kids. Is this sarcasm, couldn't tell?

ADA was 0 for his last 16 before the ASB

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 02:59 AM) What about Cliff Lee as a compromise to Grinke and Hamels? He's at $75M over the next 3 years. No way, way too expensive and hasn't pitched nearly as well this season. I really don't see how the Sox add these huge contracts to their payroll the next few year.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 02:57 AM) We've faced a lot of lefties recently, and Cook is an extreme groundball pitcher. I'd like to keep throwing him out there for now. 3 more lefties in this series probably means ADA won't be breaking out of his slump anytime soon. Still wish the Sox could dump Hudson for a back-up outfielder than can hit LHP. I think Reed Johnson would be an incredible fit for this team.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 02:53 AM) When the future of the franchise is Viciedo, Jones, Mitchell, it's ok to mortgage it. You won't see me arguing about trading Mitchell. If he has value, then by all means, use him as trade bait. That K rate is just awful.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 02:41 AM) THe DL will be retro to his last start, which we'll coming up on 15 days for anyway after this weekend. So this may not be indicative of anything, correct? Absolutely, I believe Tigers did something similar with Smyly.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 02:40 AM) Not only that, but you absolutely have to capitalize on the season Chris Sale is having. Get to the postseason, back him up with Peavy and Greinke and take your chances. When the alternative is having a 30 homer LF'er on a team struggling for third place in its division, it's a no-brainer. Greinke is extremely overrated. 2009 looks like an outlier in his career.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 17, 2012 -> 02:40 AM) I wouldn't do it for Greinke. I would for Hamels. Then I'd offer him a lot of money to stay. Phillies going to offer him 120 million dollars reports say. I think it would have been more realistic for Sox to even consider that if Danks didn't sign his extension.

De Aza Youk Dunn Rios AJP PK Viciedo Alexei Beckham You put two high OBP guys in front of your hottest hitter.