fathom

Let's just hope Pedro Alvarez can make that play.

Wow....keep booing fans, keep booing.

That's a play that needs to be made.

If there's two hitters on the Sox that I'd think would destroy Silva, it's Thome and Uribe. I remember Uribe having a two homer game vs Silva early last season. Silva's sinker just seems like the perfect location for Thome's swing. The two offensive things I want to see the rest of the year are Thome get to 500 and Fields to 20.

She's going to have quite the skanky 15 minutes of fame.....can't say I'm upset about that.

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 09:40 PM) He's got a big fish rep, but I don't think he cracks a "Top 50 Offensive Players" list. He was on his way to being a 400 homer player.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 11:34 PM) Where does he rank in repsect to Estrada? Zambrano is the captain, but Estrada is the starting catcher. Bush is #5 in the rotation.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 11:32 PM) Perhaps they should start carrying little pictures of Miller Park in their pocket to remind them of home. David Bush is on my all-hated team.

I forgot just how bad the Brewers are on the road.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 10:45 PM) Go ahead and debate... The plan was to give at bats for Hall at first base on occassion to rest PK. Was he supposed to learn during the regular season? Considering Ozzie's reluctance to ever have no back-up catcher left on the bench during a game, I highly doubt Hall would have gotten a lot of playing time at first base with AJP catching.

FWIW, Tampa loves Alvarez, and think of him as their 1B of the future.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 04:26 PM) If you go back and read my posts, you will see I have commented on several things I believe Guillen can do better. I am not sure where even an insinuation comes up that Ozzie is never ever blamed for anything. That is certainly not me. Definitely not referring to you

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 04:26 PM) No one is shocked/surprised this type of stuff comes up on a message board. If I see something posted that based on my knowledge is a gross generalization, a broad brush statement posed as fact when it isn't fact, I will chime in. I will also chime in when you for example start blaming Guillen for Hall's injury when it is a freak thing and the plan was to get him some time at 1B all along and Hall had worked out at 1B before. That type of stuff is beyond nitpicking, it is simply misguided. Part of the reason I was so upset with the Hall injury was that I was watching that game on TV, and he looked beyond awkward catching a throw at 1B a few batter's prior to the injury. I'm just mad that I decided to go get a blizzard at Dairy Queen (Brownie Batter), as I didn't post in that game thread about how I didn't think Hall should be there, because he'd be like 6th on the list in terms of possible 1b candidates (Konerko, Erstad, Mackowiak, Dye, Ozuna). Then, the whole issue escalated on this board because some people didn't think the back-up catcher spot was important, while others thought it would crush our effort against tough lefties (have we beaten a good lefty starter all year?).

QUOTE(vandy125 @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 04:30 PM) So, just because someone is wrong on one polar opposite, you are right with the other polar opposite? How does that logic work? I never said that...I just said there are those people that will love a certain player/coach, etc., and there are those that hate that same player/coach, etc. Never once did I say my opinion is right when compared to someone else's opinion.

Not if anyone cares, but I was thinking yesterday if I would even be happy if I saw on the BottomLine some morning that Ozzie was fired and quit. To be honest, that wouldn't make me happy or sad. All that matters is getting better talent on this roster, and everything seems to be pointing to Hunter as the main target.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 04:07 PM) It is pretty simple actually. If you hate Guillen you will find a way to trace all sorts of mishaps back to him. From where I sit he has made mistakes and can improve on certain things but some of the things he's blamed for ... again, I hope those people never spend any time in spring training because they will go insane. White Sox or any of the other teams camps. And from the other point of view, it seems like a lot of people will never, ever blame Ozzie for anything. I'm just shocked that people don't expect this type of polar opposite debate on a sports message board. Don't get me wrong Poplar....you at least back up your claims on why you support him. When I hear stuff like "Ozzie is the reason that Sox fans come to the park" or "there's no one else that could lead this team like he has", that's the stuff that irritates me. We suck this year, and it's been mostly every single individual in the organization besides Bobby Jenks.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 04:04 PM) Neither of these are true. One, they had Wiki Gonzalez who should have broke camp in Hall's absence but they decided on Gustavo because he knew the pitchers better (mistake IMO). Not that Wiki Gonzalez would've made a substantial difference this year. Like I said, when Gustavo Molina is your back-up....you have no back-up. I'm with you though....it was stupid to take Molina over Wiki. FWIW, Farmer mentioned the other day that Hall isn't sure if he'll get surgery.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 03:59 PM) Ever? That's a stretch. They occasionally dive for bunts or pop flys, sometimes even really bad pitches. Or dive to make tags. Certainly its not often, but it happens. And there is not much question that playing catcher is far more risky for injury than 1B. Yes, but Hall has years and years of experience at the position. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hall hurt himself diving for a grounder? Catchers have to lunge after pitches all the time, but they never have to dive parallel to the ground for a ball. I know it's a matter of semantics, but it was something that many of us at the time were critical of it happening due to the fact we didn't have a single possible back-up for the back-up. Hall might be the most useless/worthless player in baseball this year.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 03:20 PM) Toby Hall isn't that good to begin with. And no, Ozzie didn't ruin him. Would everybody, say, throw Bobby Cox under the bus if Salty had been injured when they played him at first? It was a freak play and they were trying to save him some energy by not having him catch. There was nothing wrong with what Ozzie did, I don't care how bad Hall looked at first. He wasn't there trying out for the position. He was just getting at-bats. You know there's a huge difference between Hall and Salty, as the Braves actually were interested in getting him some at-bats at first base (due to their awful LaRoche trade). Also, there were so many concerns about his defensive ability behind the plate, everyone knows he'll eventually become a 1B. The Sox had no other options at back-up catcher in the spring, and should have been more careful with Hall. Diving for a ball isn't something that catchers ever have to do.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 11:32 AM) Did Ozzie continuously run this team out of innings? Did he put his players in position to get hurt? Did he continuously mishandle the pitching staff? No - when the teams performance is hindered by strategy, and not injuries and poor execution, then I think its fair to blame Ozzie. Absolutely, he ruined our back-up catcher in the spring training (I can't wait to debate this for the 500th time this year).

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 01:14 PM) The point that both Kalapse and 29 have been making, though from slightly different angles, is key here - evaluating a manager is not a task laden with hard facts. Its a soft study. Therefore, saying "Ozzie is an atrocious manager" is not only an OPINION, it is also probably far overstated. Saying Ozzie is a "great" manager, same thing - OPINION, and probably ignoring some of his missteps. So trying to have this discussion by saying over, and over, and over again those opinions is not going anywhere. Ozzie's not going anywhere, so it's really pointless having the back and forth debate about him anymore. I think we'll all agree we need to see better results starting in April of 2008, and if not, a lot of people should be on the hot seat. Some people love him, some hate him.....it's that way with every coach in sports.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 01:13 PM) It is real easy to pick out situations where things didn't work out. Where were you yesterday when Wasserman was in there to face Sheffield and Ordonez. It works both ways and has for every manager in the history of the game. I was at work, not watching the game. The game against Morneau back in April or May was terrible managing, and you asked for a specific instance in which he managed poorly.

I think people will be amazed at just how many players were/are doing HGH.

There goes the feel-good story. It's weird, because I was amazed at how big his head looked when he did a curtain call today (and yes, that sounds a bit gay).

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 7, 2007 -> 04:43 AM) Like somebody said, Connie Mack couldn't manage this team to victories. The veterans sucked. Injuries. The bullpen would drive any manager to drink. Even today, an automatic win and poor Bobby has his first bad day in a long time. Another loss. It AINT OZ'S FAULT. How bout the veterans WHO CANT HIT (can you say Dye, AJ, Thome, Paulie, Uribe, Erstad). How about KW who put together perhaps the worst bullpen in baseball history. Fields is this season's only bright spot. As well as Bobby. Here's the question I have then....when is it the manager's fault? At what point is it the manager's fault for not getting the most out of his players? We had a year and a half of great baseball, and that's been followed by a year and a half of terrible baseball. 2008 better be a make-or-break year for KW, Ozzie, etc. (which is why I think an Ozzie extension is beyond stupid).