fathom

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 04:31 PM) When don't they sign their high draft picks? They always do. Go back to Bobby Hill and Weaver and Seay, those are prob. the last ones. We haven't had a super high pick though in a long time. Those top picks require a good amount of money. If you don't trade Dye and Buehrle, then you're going to have 4 more sandwich picks that all would require a significant signing bonus to bring into the organization. QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) Yes. He doesn't have to trade MB by Wed. Situations change, other teams may suddenly have needs to fill. Mets and Dodgers are really hurting for pitchers now. I agree we should wait a few weeks, but this whole issue going to the press might make it harder. Even Ozzie is saying he's sick of it.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 04:29 PM) Most likely, you see I really don't care about any of these guys unless they win. they are not winning now so figure out who stays and who goes. Who is old and who is part of the rebuilding. There are alot of questions. The thing that makes it worse is we have a lousy and I mean lousy farm system, with possibly only one player ready to make the jump. Thats the real problem. If anderson and sweeney were actaully any good and there was a pitcher or two that could make the jump with an ERA under 4 then we can move on. So, its very delicate right now. These next three days will tell the whitesox and the fans which way this team will rebuild. Blow the whole thing up. The division is too good over the next few years to try and compete and rebuild. It was my number 1 complaint about KW last offseason. He thought he could do both, and obviously failed miserably at helping the team on the field. Here's the question I have: how often do players actually decline a trade due to having a NTC? The Phil Nevin/Griffey Jr. trade is one of the few I can remember that fell through.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) No what he needs to do is figure out if he is getting enough in return or if he should let it ride and take the two picks. Thats all. Thats the only question and that may take a while to figure out. Here's the thing...unless we open up the checkbook for the draft next year, all these possibly supplementary picks we'll have will be useless. We'll have to spend most of the budget on the first pick.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 04:22 PM) Thats right and if buerhle doesn't sign thats why i would begin trading garland right now or at the winter meetings. Now your rebuilding. But if you trade those guys, you better be trading Contreras, Thome, etc.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 04:17 PM) Well when did we do that in the past with free agents. Thats not how we every built teams. Nothign has changed except your expectations. The players want money first, that brings their security blanket. next there wives get involved because they don't want to move and they want to live in there own house. Quite frankly if Buehrle wasn't married or his wife pregnant right now it wouldn't mean a damn thing. So this enters another dimension. Buehrle is askign for the clause, thats the right thing to do for his family. The sox countered with a limited clause, and they have very good and sound reasons for that. If they can't agree then its over. Good negotiation, good asks and good money. KW then should be judged on what he gets back. Sorry even Roger clemons bounced from team to team, same with maddox. Take emotion out of it. Agreed, but then KW needs to give the trading partner the 72 hour negotiating window so that we can get more in return. This last week proved that there's no chance we'll re-sign Buehrle this offseason, so you might as well capitalize on the situation and get the best package possible. I'm concerned that we're already hearing rumors that teams aren't willing to meet our demands, etc.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 04:12 PM) So basically, give the players whatever they want. Not sure that works too well in the long run, or the short run for that matter. Nope, but you have to keep talent on your team once in a while. This Buehrle situation guarantees that Garland will be gone sooner than later also.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 04:06 PM) Fathom why so emotional? With the exception of this year the sox have been in contention for many years, they are usually one player short and its not necessarily the prime players. last year we won 90 games and we would have won the division if Buerhle was himself and andersen was slightly decent. We easily could have won 6 more games if not for those two underperformers alone. Once you get emotional about players every perspective gets lost except the emotion. Buerhle was going to get 14 million a year and a typical Buerhle season is about 14 or 15 wins. Thats a million dollars a win. I think that is pretty fair and who knows what the market will be later. Buehrle wants added security and the sox want a way out of the contract (via Trade) if they deem so at a particular time. I think thats fair as well. No team should be handcuffed. In fact I would argue the sox were handcuffed on contraras this year until he said he would waive his no trade to the mets. I am actually not siding with anyone but it seems that this contract with a limtied no trade clause is somewhere in the middle of what both wanted. In reality, it's not about Buehrle. I'm just puzzled as to how we can legitimately build a playoff contender without giving out NTC to our free agents, not getting into biddiing wars for top free agents, not going after Boras clients, and not going after draft picks well above slot money. I'm also not looking forward to seeing Vazquez and Contreras be our 1-2 pitchers.

QUOTE(Beastly @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 04:05 PM) Again, woo hoo. I'd rather have Buehrle than an unproven draft pick. No, what he's saying is that we're going to have a very high pick in next year's draft, Buehrle or no Buehrle.

QUOTE(Beastly @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 03:11 PM) I am going to go to the game Tuesday and Wednesday, and make a big sign that says: Buehrle (check) Buehrle's Money (check) NTC and Kenny's Brain (empty check box) I am embarassed to have Kenny Williams as our GM. Honestly, I would just give Buehrle the No-trade clause and let those who want one go because you can build a good team easier with Garland, Danks and young pitching. But hey, it'll be a long five years of rebuilding. We're talking about a four year deal, not a ten year deal here. It's obvious that the Sox really don't want to keep Buehrle that much. Didn't they know he was going to ask for a NTC.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 05:52 AM) Shut your mouth Dye. You been fantastic in a White Sox uniform, don't spoil your image with snide remarks. He was swinging out of his ass all year in order to get his numbers up for the bigger payday. There's been a lot of crap behind the scenes with him since last offseason, and we should have moved him a month ago. KW was such a freaking idiot when he had that pathetic speech about how he's going to let all of his free agents from now on test the market.

Good luck signing any free agents if you're not going to give NTC. Between this policy and the Boras bulls***, it really makes you wonder how we'll ever get our talent level back up in today's market. I hope KW doesn't think he can build up from the farm system, as that could take like 5 years.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 07:38 PM) There is no loyalty in sports, period. I'm sorry but this proposed contract is just an absolute steal for the Sox even with the no trade clause. This would have been way to good of a deal for the Sox to pass up imo and it looks like that is exactly what they're going to do. And it makes it about 99 pct likely that Jon Garland is gone after this year as well.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 06:50 PM) Isn't it also what the articles posted on whitesox.com, part of the White Sox organization, say? Yes, but there's heavy rumors that many of the "sources" during the last week were members of Buehrle's family.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 06:12 PM) So in other words, Buehrle's camp is telling the Sox he wants the extra year and half of NTC rights as they gave Garland and Contreras the one year (and after 2 and a half of it for Mark he'd be 10/5), and in return he'll sign for just the 4 years and just the 56 million. That seems MORE than fair to me towards the Sox. Which is exactly what the Buehrle side wants you to believe.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 05:50 PM) Bowden supposedly has the worst rep as a GM in baseball. Arrogant or alcoholic? BTW, what's the chances we trade for C. Guzman this offseason?

QUOTE(Brian @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 05:47 PM) I still LOL thinking that he wanted to meet ARod without Boras around. I laugh even harder when people think we'll sign Ichiro or ARod this offseason.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 05:46 PM) Seriously now people, it's not the same thing AT ALL. It's for the best though, cause if the Sox extended Buehrle and then traded him this offseason, that would be an even bigger slap in the face to our fans.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 05:44 PM) We don't sign big free agents and we won't spend money on draft picks. So where the f*** do they expect to compete from? Because KW is the most arrogant GM in sports, and thinks he knows better than everyone else.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 05:31 PM) See ya. He'll be back tomorrow, don't worry. QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 05:34 PM) I still think it might be better long term for the franchise's talent level if we trade Mark, that is IF Kenny gets proper value in return. However if we won't give a guy who is going to be a 10 and 5 guy in 2009 anyways a NTC, and that causes a 4/56 bargain basement deal with a premeire lefty to fall through, that is pathetic. Pathetic. How do JR and KW ever expect to acquire top talent then unless they're a few years away from free agency? So not only do we shy away from going after free agent talent, but we also shy away from spending money in the draft. KW talks a big game, but he's acted like a pussy so far. How many more times can he say they're going to make big changes, and two weeks later.....NOTHING! Maybe we can just keep acquiring Ozzie's buddies.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 04:41 PM) After sleeping on it, I'm really not all that upset at all. As long as KW can get a nice haul in a deal for Buehrle I'll be fine with it. Me too....but we also have to get rid of Contreras as well.

Look at who's in our lineup right now....we have so many guys who should be on the bench or in the minors. Only Konerko, Iguchi, Thome, and AJP should be starting in the majors right now. The Tampa series was a nice breather on what's been a miserable year, but it's hard to imagine any scenario when we can even get within 6 or 7 games of the division lead the rest of the way. our schedule during the 2nd half is incredibly tough.

One more thing....if we're not willing to make this deal happen for Buehrle, you might as well go ahead and trade Garland then. He's going to want/get in the 14 million dollar range also, and I'm sure he'll want a NTC.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 03:14 PM) ...it won't be "dead" until he's traded elsewhere. Either way, I'm losing interest. They had me, and then they lost me... You sound like Ozzie Guillen.

QUOTE(Straycats @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 02:46 PM) I read on WSI that Jayson Stark believes that Buehrle will sign by monday That was probably stated prior to last night. QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 02:46 PM) Now that the article is on MLB.com, I am pretty convinced that this is not a publicity stunt any more. Sad Story Anyone else think that they have to trade him prior to Monday night now? When's Floyd's next start supposed to be?

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 04:30 AM) I trade Thornton for Gwynn in an instant. Gwynn's not very good. The last thing we need to be doing is trading an actual competent reliever for a 4th outfielder. We have like 50 of those in our organization right now.