fathom

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 03:58 PM) That's not what he's saying. Maybe you should try again, both of you. A lot of Latin players come back in better shape from playing in winter leagues instead of relaxing in the offseason. That's all he's saying. But WHAT IF HE WEREN'T?! Is there more to this quote than what ssi posted? If so, then I might take back my comment about Ozzie being an idiot with this situation (of course, I still think he's an idiot).

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 03:53 PM) All sox players should strive to be latin. He's such an idiot.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 02:14 PM) Actually you basically proved my point. Jim has other factors in his head versus just winning, or his list would have looked different. The thing all three teams have in common, was that they are all places he would be comfortable. If he was worried about rebuilding, he wouldn't have listed the Cubs as an option, no matter how big of a fan he was. If he was worried about winning a ring, there would have been a bunch more high dollar teams on that list instead. To be honest, I'd be disappointed in Thome if he didn't want a shot at a ring by going somewhere else. I'm not saying he'd go to New York or Boston, but I think he'd be quite comfortable playing a season or two with the Angels, etc. I'd be so happy for him to finally win a World Series ring....he's one of the nicest guys in the history of sports.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 03:12 PM) Ozzie is a special type of manager. He's Tony LaRussa with a mouth and there's nothing wrong with that. I love it. If we won't keep Ozzie as our manager, someone else will take him and we'll be stuck with crap for years and years. Again. I know everybody hates their manager, especially when they're losing, but any move to replace Guillen would be foolish. He IS the White Sox to the average fan; he loves the White Sox; he knows baseball. I say this respectfully for the man, but Ozzie cares too much about winning to handle a rebuilding situation. He takes the losses so hard now, and it likely won't get too much better over the next few years. I'll gladly accept him as our manager if he can prove that he's willing to deal with the struggles of a young player so that they can prove they belong in the majors. Rebuilding with this organization won't be easy due to the horrendous development of our prospects. QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 03:05 PM) Shines as manager might just be enough to keep my money in the bank... Not a fan?

No way we can trade for Dunn with his upcoming free agency. I have a feeling we were there to see Weathers. It's really to the point I hope we don't go .500 over the next few weeks. Either win every game or lose every game.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 02:02 PM) When the Phillies asked Thome about waiving his no trade clause there were exactly 3 teams he said he would accept a trade to: White Sox, Cleveland Indians, and the Chicago Cubs. He either wanted to play in Cleveland where he played most of his career, or he wanted to play at home. Winning a ring was not his big motivation, or you would have seen teams like New York and Boston on this list, and you definately would not have seen the 2006 Cubs on that list. He grew up a Cubs fan, which is why I think he would have gone there. Besides that, the Sox and Indians were expected to be two of the best teams from the 2006 to 2008 seasons, etc. I'm sure Thome wouldn't mind getting sent to a team who can finally help him win a ring. I highly doubt Thome's dream situation as he finishes up his career is to be on a team that goes into a rebuilding mode, which is almost assured of happening here.

As a rookie, Cabrera put up a .752 OPS. Name me the last time any rookie from the Sox came up and put up those numbers? He's also only 22 years old now. He's not great, but he'd at least be a major league talent we'd be assured of acquiring.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 01:41 PM) [/color] Someone with a little MORE patience...?? Oye.. you can't get more relaxed in that clubhouse than Ozzie. Mr "Let's just forget about it and go get a beer". You know I was referring to patience with young players.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 04:44 AM) I would love to get Kennedy and Cano, I don't want Cabrera. It seems like there will be a lot of bidders as well. I think Gammons mentioned Seattle as a bidder on Baseball Tonight. Cabrera is a hell of a lot better than many of the names people will pray for over the next few weeks. If anything, at least it would give us a good throwing arm in the outfield.

How about this......I heard Thornton on Comcast, and he said the pitch call was an inside fastball to Rowand. From watching Rowand play for over five years now, the one pitch he really can handle, especially against a lefty, is something hard and in. Reminds me of how we kept pitching Frank in when that's the only pitch he can handle.

Does it really even matter anymore if Ozzie is our manager? This core group isn't going to get it done, and the next time we're going to be in playoff contention, it will be with an entirely different group. Ozzie seems to have very little patience for young players that don't come up and contribute right away. However, we're going to have to deal with those growing pains as we go though the rebuilding process. It might be better to bring in a manager who has a little more patience.

All I know is that if we're in a situation where we have to give up Buehrle, Garland, Thome, etc., and we keep Vazquez and Contreras, then KW better be fired.

The Yanks would never give up Cano in a deal, as his replacement wouldn't match him in terms of production or age (contract). People are really overestimating how much we could get for players.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 11:21 PM) actually, i think all the moves he made that you are criticizing were the correct moves, especially taking Danks out. Yep, and I was about to criticize him for letting Rowand face a lefty, but Rowand's OPS is 300 pts better against righties this year.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 10:15 PM) What young players? What young players do you expect Ozzie to be managing? We obviously have all of this major league ready talent in the minors just waiting for their opportunity. I think he means if Ozzie dicks around with Fields like he's hinted at.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:57 PM) I guess we'll find out. Buehrle isn't Randy Johnson, and Randy didn't bring two A grade prospects -- he brought 3 B grade prospects only one of which panned out for Seattle. Garcia and Carlos Guillen were big time prospects when they were traded.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:42 PM) I personally am a big fan of Reyes and would want him with any trade involving the Cards. He struggled this year, but he has a big time change up. I didn't get to see any of his outings this year, but last year after he practically whooped the White Sox (except Thome) I watched a couple more of his outings. I think he is going to be a stud with some more work. Isn't he already like 25 years old?

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:38 PM) I don't care how unlikely it is. Williams requires a tremendous haul for Buehrle if we're looking towards the immediate future with any optimism. Don't think it's possible other teams will give up top talent? Too bad. Then he needs for his scouts to identify talent in the lower levels of opposing teams. Again, I've set the expectations high and I'm not stepping down. No excuses. I look forward to your posts, and the recently acquired young phenom Devito, more than anyone's over the next month and a half.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:36 PM) I'd never confuse him with Nellie Fox, but he's far from "awful" at 2B. I think that you are being blinded by the obnoxious piling-on and knee-jerk rhetoric so prevalent on Soxtalk this season. You do know that southsideirish is one of the most positive posters on this site, right?

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:26 PM) :oldrolleyes So you're saying you believe Iguchi is good defensively?

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:19 PM) Ok. Thanks. I'll just stop watching now. Do you think this team can still make the playoffs? (BTW, this is an honest question, not being a smart ass).

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:13 PM) I'd go with Iguchi's defense and playoff experience down the stretch. Then again, the Sox will get little for Tad, so it's probably not even worth dealing him. Iguchi's defense? I'm not joking when I say Barfield has 50 pct more range than Iguchi does. Iguchi might be the worst defensive 2nd baseman in baseball.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:16 PM) White Sox prospects called up this season (including BA) have combined for: .188 avg 7 HR 16 RBI in 207 AB's Luis Terrero should not count as a prospect.

QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 08:49 PM) Why is everyone forgetting that Thome has a no trade clause? Thome came to Chicago thinking he could get a ring. I don't think he's too confident in that now, and he'd jump at the chance to make the playoffs.

For what Cabrera would cost in terms of players and then in his contract (is he 2 years away from free agency), he's not worth it to our organization. Also, Cabrera is an absolutely horrific defender, and I have questions about his attitude/body. He's a great hitter, but I think our assets could be used better elsewhere.