fathom

In the month of May, Jenks has a 0.00 ERA and a WHIP blow 1. During that same span, Aardsma's ERA is 9.00 and his WHIP is around 2.25. For the biggest out of the game, and in a walk-off situation, you better have Jenks on the mound. I don't think there's anyone on here that would have been mad at Ozzie if Jenks came in and allowed the run to score.

QUOTE(daa84 @ May 30, 2007 -> 09:18 PM) i know you are mr. pessimism, but isnt it remarkable that we are only 3 back in losses out of hte W.C.? Yeah, but I haven't even looked at that. Until we start playing good baseball, I won't even think of this being a playoff team. The sad thing is that I really feel the Yankees and Indians will be our biggest competitors for the WC, as I don't think the Twins have enough this year.

QUOTE(daa84 @ May 30, 2007 -> 09:14 PM) its funny cuz after 05 i simply had expected this team to play like its the best team in the league. all throughout last year i felt like we were, but as time has gone on i have realized that for that stretch of time, we were, and those days are gone....if this was 2004, i wouldn't be happy with the way the sox were playing, as all i hoped for was 86-90 wins...after 05 i expected better, and now like you, im starting to realize that the best i can hope for is to be in that 85+ win category, and anything beyond that is simply something that is only gonna happen in those magical type years I'm just so happy they capitalized on "our year". A lot of teams have a magical season, but they can't finish it off. Like you said, we were the best overall team for the majority of the 2005 season. Ever since the ASB last year, we're nowhere near that.

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 30, 2007 -> 09:10 PM) But Politte and Cotts always had the potential to be good, anyway. While we weren't expected them to put up astronomical numbers again, they were expected to fall into the range of "dependable," even more so in Cotts case, as he was projected to be a starter. Cotts allowed one homer during the entire 2005 season, and that's coming from someone with a 91 mph high fastball as his main pitch. It was possibly the luckiest individual season I've ever seen. Heck, I still don't know how Mike Lamb swung through that fastball in game 1 to strike out in the 8th inning.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ May 30, 2007 -> 09:07 PM) It is easy, as you seem to do most games the last 10 days, to scapegoat the manager. The reality is it is much more than that. I think there's a plethora of things going on these days causing us to lose. However, we need better strategical managing to help this team when certain personnel is struggling. Aardsma can't have any confidence these days, yet we brought him into possibly the most difficult position a reliever can find himself in. After seeing Aardsma walk the bases loaded in his last game, I'll take my chances with the solid control of Jenks. And if a K isn't critical, then Jenks is definitely a better option than Aardsma, as Jenks hasn't allowed a homer all season.

QUOTE(daa84 @ May 30, 2007 -> 09:05 PM) ok, well what i mean is hta BA never had him as a top 10 prospect in the twins organization....and maybe that speaks to the depth of their organization, cuz i cant fathom (no pun intended) a guy outside our top 10 coming even close to putting up the #s neshek does in our pen.... maybe sleeper was a better way of putting it as this is from a BA chat, but nontheless....its not like anyone figured neshek would do what he is doing I don't know where he's been rated by them....I'm just going off of things said off the record by their analysts about him.

QUOTE(Steff @ May 30, 2007 -> 09:05 PM) The Twins are one of many clubs who are light years ahead of the Sox in terms of player development. It's amusing to me that with all of the Twins success under their current regime, we're the one with the World Series crown. I assume you're like me Steff, and you realize just how magical the 2005 season was with every passing day.

Neshek isn't a hidden gem...he's been a well-regarded member of their minors for a few years now. I know for a fact that the BA scouts LOVE him.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:51 PM) What you said is it was a bad match up because of fastball tendancies. You are making lots of generalizations here with nothing to back it up, other than saying things a million times. Aardsma was pitching damn well inside earlier this year. It's not so much he can't, he showed he could and Sox fans loved him. His confidence and command are awful now and he needs to fix it, preferably in Charlotte for a few weeks IMO. Hunter's best swings are like most players best swings, when pitches stay out over the plate. Hunter has trouble with good sliders. If his best swings, as "everyone knows" are vs. fb's, well what is Jenks best pitch, I believe it is a fastball. I've seen Aardsma pitch probably more than anyone, as I watch almost all Cubs games also. Aardsma rarely pitched inside at the beginning of the year. Like during that Indians game where he was great, he was just painting the outside corner to righties. The catcher rarely sets up inside for him on the mound. Also, I disagree that Jenks best pitch is his fastball. Jenks fastball is actually his set-up pitch, as he strikes out hitters with his offspeed stuff almost every time. I can think of only a few strike outs he has this year from blowing his fastball past the hitter.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:32 PM) garland is getting off the hook so easy with you cliff jumpers. The key part of the game to everyone is not bringing in our closer in a non save situation (which he does pretty terrible in for his career) and watching a pitcher walk in a run without a pitch close to the plate. Dont blame the players who had 20 walks in this series, dont blame the offense who couldnt muster a threat past the 3rd inning, or the starting pitcher who apparently was afraid of a 5 run lead. Blame the manager for making a basic decision that just happened to go wrong. And I thought White Sox fans were known for being knowledgable. I think we'll both agree that losing 9 games so far this year that we were leading during the 6th inning or later has been our biggest downfall. We never, ever extend a lead that we get early, and it always seems like we're just wasting outs until the opposition comes back. QUOTE(daa84 @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:47 PM) fathom, i agree with what you have said so far, but i fail to see how a fastball running in on teh hands of righties is a disadvantage....i completely agree with you though, that no doubt you want jenks in that situation, i just think you can throw a running fastball into righties without hitting them Aardsma can't pitch inside to righties. There's a reason that he throws about 95 pct of his fastballs to the outside corner. He's also someone that when he gets adrenaline flowing, he happens to overthrow and his ball tails over the plate more. If AJP set up inside on Hunter, he would have been begging for Aardsma to hit him.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:40 PM) How about that rolling breaking ball he hit off of Garland? That wasn't a fastball. Bill Melton was on the postgame and he said it ticks him off because other teams know how to get hunter out. Basically you pitch him in on his hands and then he will chase offspeed stuff down and away. Let's face it this was a total team loss. That's another reason Aardsma is a bad match-up. He can't pitch inside against righty hitters. If he tried, his ball would tail right into them and hit them. Hunter might have hit a hanging curve, but everyone knows his best swings are against fastballs. Heck, even Farmer on the radio said that it wasn't a good match-up for the Sox.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:34 PM) Danks is the only player the Sox shoudl be hesitant to trade. And even he, obviously, should be moved at the right, steep price. There's not a single player on the roster to build around. If KW has a big budget ofr 1 more season he should use that and the available talent to completely remake the team. Yep, Danks is the lone untouchable in the organization. It's scary how many holes we have with such a big payroll. We're going to suck big time the next few years. At least if some young guys are getting a chance, it might be a little more exciting. This is about the most boring team I can remember.

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:35 PM) have KW or Ozzie made any comments lately? I'm waiting for the "It's only June" or "With our schedule..." lame comments Yeah, they said they're not going to be sellers at the deadline.

We face some electric stuff in the Blue Jays series. I hope Frank doesn't make us his b**** again.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:27 PM) ah he coulda. Nice philosophy. No other manager in baseball would have kept their closer on the bench in hopes we get a run the next inning with the heart of our order up. s*** who even knows if Bobby is healthy, oh wait, everyone on Soxtalk knows. If you bring in Jenks in that situation, and he gets Hunter out, then he easily can go in the next inning. It's not like he would have to throw too many pitches in the 9th, and he would face one batter at the max. Aardsma is a horrible, horrible match-up against Hunter due to their fastball tendencies. QUOTE(AirScott @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:35 PM) I didn't say Weathers would turn the team into a juggernaut. But it would shore up most of the bullpen woes, methinks. Nope, he's terrible. Also, the Reds would want a solid prospect for him, as I'm sure other teams like the Tigers would inquire about him.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:27 PM) I sense some very dark times ahead for the Sox. 10 to 1 instead of the Sox becoming really good in the next few years with this focus on getting younger, they become a constant 3rd-4th place team, perhaps the next Kansas City Royals. I sure as hell would be pissed about losing Thome, who do you think we would get to make up for his loss? And this situation with Mark not having a contract pisses me off to no end. I'm not quite as fond of KW and especially Ozzie as I used to be. Everyone in baseball expects us to not be an AL Central contender for the next few years. It's fine though, that happens and we've gone with veteran players long enough. However, years of horrible minor league development is really going to kill us.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:21 PM) MacDougal's 05 and 06 numbers were really pretty good -- I don't know how anyone could foresee this level of ineptitude from MacDougal. Plenty of teams have made trades with perennial losing teams and done well (e.g. the Astros deadline deal for Beltran). This isn't to defend MacDougal at all, but $20M worth of Garland and Konerko sucked today at least as bad as he did if not more. Relievers, we're talking about.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:24 PM) Yeah, he couldnt hit the strike zone all series. Good call! If he feels like we're getting squeezed, he needs to get off of his ass and get tossed. He should be trying anything he possibly can in order to fire up the team.

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:20 PM) Somebody except the closer pitching the 9th is accepted baseball managing mentality. Everyone does it, saving the closer for later. The obvious question is, "How do you get to later?" Like sliding into first, this mentality probably won't go away and madden many, many people. I have no problem at all with MacDougal starting that inning. It was one of the rare teams I'll say Ozzie made the right move. However, after Logan got Morneau out, you have to bring in Jenks. Not only do you hope he gets Hunter, but you also have your 3-4-5 up in the next inning. Then, if you score, he can go the next inning easily. Ozzie is a terrible manager, and he proves it far too often.

Just imagine how much worse the offseason would have been if Danks didn't make the opening day roster. Things are going to get ugly in the media with KW and Ozzie very soon.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:13 PM) Why? I hope that was an "invisible green" post. No, it was serious. There's no way we're bringing back Buehrle or Dye, and moving Iguchi could allow KW to go out and try to find a more athletic 2nd baseman. Thome is an interesting case, but I'd lose no sleep if he was dealt.

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:09 PM) hopefully we'll stay on enough of a losing streak to tear this team down to the core next month It's really tough right now. In my head, I know it's good for the Sox to lose, as they have no chance to catch the Indians/Tigers and the best thing that could happen would be to get some talented prospects for our aging veterans. In my heart though, I'm used to watching Sox games that matter and being pissed off if they lose. Sadly, I don't even really have any emotions about them losing today....just annoyed that's it gotten this bad so quickly.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:11 PM) Really? He gets paid about 50% of what the entire bullpen makes. If someone wants a guy who can't throw a strike let them have him. Like you've said lately, stop trading for guys on perennial losing teams.

QUOTE(daa84 @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:08 PM) macdougal doesn't have options......so it would be moronic to just let him go....it doesn't take balls to send him down, it takes stupidity It's too bad Tigers are in our own division, as they'd definitely be interested in a guy like MacDougal. So would the Reds as a possible closer for them for the next few years.

QUOTE(CYGarland @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:07 PM) Time to back up the bus, this team is toast this year I just really hope we don't try and acquire some aging veteran now who's contract is done in two years. The last thing we need is to get older and more expensive. We really should be looking for people interested in Dye or Iguchi or Buehrle or Thome.