fathom

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 05:07 PM) Once again, that didn't make it a bad trade to make at the time it was made. I think what DA and myself are saying is that Vazquez just isn't that good of a pitcher, especially for how much money he makes. There were quite a few of us that hated the trade when it would made, especially due to Young's huge potential and not seeing what McCarthy could do as a starter.

Last minute predictions: I'm going with Savery

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 05:02 PM) He wasn't even .500. I also doubt it was a coincidence he picked it up as soon as the White Sox postseason chances went to approximately 0. With the way this team was hitting during the first half of the year, the Sox could have been 10 games up on the WC at the ASB if Vazquez was pitching better. Don't forget Vazquez's knack for being a momentum killer. There were quite a few times where we had a nice winning streak going, and he went out and s*** the bed.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 04:37 PM) Then it's probably time to just gut this team and start over, once it reaches the point where the Manager is having no effect on the team's play at all it's probably for the best to just start over from scratch. At least he made the Yahoo.com front page again for something he said.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 04:06 PM) No doubt, no doubt. But had we made a run deep into the playoffs last year, would people continue to be moaning about that trade? Or would it have been worth it then? We won 90 games. So many things are outside of Kenny's control. The damn Cardinals won 83 games and won the World Series. Isn't it obvious how speculative his job is? No, it would have been a fine trade then, as KW was clearly making that trade to try and repeat. The problem was that Vazquez was a big part of the problem, especially for the first 80 pct of the season.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:59 PM) Well I happen to disagree about Anderson as well. This team was plenty loaded last year to absorb whatever negative impact Brian brought on by his struggling at the plate. I am a firm believer that he neutralized his weak offense by his spectacular defense. The pitching stafff, the offense in the second half, alot of things let this franchise down last year. It wasn't about one trade. It was about our division getting ridiculously strong, and out pitching letting us down. But it's too damn late to continue crying over spilt milk. I also thought that Anderson should have kept playing in CF last year and been given the chance to start the year out there as well. But he never went out and MADE Ozzie put him in CF last season with his production. When we traded Rowand and Young, we left our franchise with only one possible CF.....and he's underachieved.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:53 PM) So your logic is now that anyone that is highly-touted before should fail because some in the past have? I didn't mean to suggest before that Gio will turn into Barry Zito. But Gio has put up the numbers which suggest he can be a solid #2 in this league, which is basically what Zito is. I'm not going to doom him to failure because others in the past have reached that result. No...it would be great if someone from our minors actually overachieved based on their expectations. The last person to do that has to be Buehrle. I've just always thought of Gio as more of a #4 or 5 guys. There's nothing about his numbers, while repeating AA in a pitcher's park, that makes me think he's going to be a standout starter. If Danks can be a 2/3 and Gio can be a 4/5 though, we have the makings of a competitive staff.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:47 PM) I disagree, but hey, that's just me. I'd rather have our pitching solidified with some solid, durable starting pitchers than have CY and "hope" he doesn't finally hit his stride when it's time to pay him. With the offense on this team, having Brian out there in center should have been enough. When KW made that deal, it was with the notion that teams seeking to repeat usually have starting pitching that is tired or injured the following year. He studied the Braves and other teams that went deep into the playoffs and that is what occured. He was trying to win another championship, perhaps at the expense of the future of the ballclub. Simply because it didn't work out last year, and probably won't this year is no reason to condemn the guy now. Move on already. Good post about the Anderson impact. KW put all of his chips into Brian Anderson, and it hurts this franchise.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:31 PM) Gio is NOT Arnie Munoz. That didn't stop people from pencilling in Munoz with Zito-like numbers. All the hype started after an ESPN the Magazine tidbit about how Munoz's curve was as good as Zito's.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:24 PM) I don't care how long Chris Young's homer was last night. I'll take Javy for the the 5 years we'll end up having him over a Mike Cameron clone every day and twice on half-price Mondays. The venom spewed for certain players on here is so ridiculously immature and pathetic. Some of you are so bitter and irritable that you add nothing other than sheer negativity and arrogance. Thanks for all that adds to this forum. A Mike Cameron clone who's making no money is better than 4 years of Javy. I do find it funny how some people project Ryan Sweeney or Gio to be so damn good, yet they try and make Young sound bad by saying he can only be a Cameron clone.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:05 PM) Me neither, they have been watching him for a while. Also on that same note they took Long from Miami last yr. FWIW, I'm not a fan of Ely's at all! Let's just say I know someone who played with him on the field for a long time, and I never heard one positive about the kid.

QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 02:22 AM) Does anyone realize that the Sox have no speed? If they can unload either of Dye or Crede for a guy like Abreu (without his joke of a contract) they'd be stupid not to do it. Especially if KW says he's not trading for prospects and has a "this year" mentality. Did everyone forget how much speed the '05 Sox had? Or did everyone think it was just the pitching? Ok...what speed did we have? We still had a 1b, 3b, rf, c, and dh with no speed. Our ss isn't very fast, and our cf and 2nd baseman were slightly above average at best.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Sox entertained the idea of drafting Chicagoland prospect John Ely, a pitcher for Miami of Ohio with their 2nd pick.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 06:16 AM) Regardless of if Kenny is horrible and fired in 3 years or if he wins another World Series or two, this will be looked back upon as his biggest mistake as GM, and by a wide margin (this being not dealing Crede this winter). Nope....2nd worst move

QUOTE(joesaiditstrue @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 05:23 AM) someone associated with the Jays apparently said the sox look lethargic to him, just seems like the vets on this team don't really care all that much about winning, especially with their salaries Poor Jerry Manuel....when he was the manager, it was his fault, and never the players.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 05:02 AM) Right, because another guy with a devastating hook and extremely average fastball didn't just sign a 7 year, 126 million dollar deal this offseason... I remember when a similar thing was said about Arnie Munoz.

Guys....we're not getting anything for Crede now. He's the definition of damaged goods.

Doesn't seem like anyone's optimistic he'll be able to avoid some type of surgery. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:58 AM) He'll make $5.25M next year then he has a team option for '09 worth $8.25M and another for '10 worth $10M. So if you trade for him now, he'll be under your control for the next 3 years at $23.5M which is very reasonable. That's better than what someone said it was....I'M BACK ON THE CRAWFORD BANDWAGON!

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:34 AM) ThereisnowaywecouldgetCrawfordandstillkeepDanks+Gio The problem with getting Crawford now is that he's going to be a FA in a few years.

Chris Young with another mammoth homer tonight.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:13 AM) Tell me whom the Sox can realistically get for him, and then tell me how much those prospects are going to improve the Sox' chances of making the playoffs the next couple of years. The prospects should be guys that can hopefully be core members of the team from 2009 to 2011. I still would love to get Milledge and a pitching prospect from the Mets.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:10 AM) If they don't turn things around soon, there is no future--at least not for a long time. They're not going to get anything for Dye the way he's playing so far. They probably won't get much for Buehrle either. Prospects are suspects, and nobody is going to give blue chip prospects for guys who are underperforming. If guys like Dye, Iguchi, Crede, Konerko and even Buerhle were performing well, the Sox would be right near the top and there would be no need to sell them off. If they don't begin to perform soon, you're not going to get anything for them. Buehrle is the best player possibly available. Even a mediocre GM could get a lot of value for him.

I'm just happy to see Fields make contact every at-bat. If he keeps a high rate of contact, he'll be just fine. Also, anyone expecting Gio to ever be more than a #4 or 5 is going to be disappointed.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 02:31 AM) Dye for Abreu please. Yep, let's spend 16 million on one guy next year when we have so many holes. The 2008 Sox will have more holes that need to be filled than Paris Hilton when she gets out of jail.