fathom

The more I hear Carl and Frank talk, the more respect I have for Ozzie for making the clubhouse get along so well last year. This also makes me like guys like PK and Thome more. Those are classy players who make it easy to root for them.

Sweeney's biggest fan, besides Mr. and Mrs. Sweeney, is Ozzie.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 9, 2006 -> 08:06 PM) We'll never have a good spring under ozzie. Look at the lineup he runs out there even though we are at home! Do I need to start my "Fire Ozzie" thread again?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 9, 2006 -> 01:46 AM) I still don't think I agree with the statement "our bullpen will be weaker than last year." Balta...I think the bullpen will be weaker because guys like Cotts and Politte won't be able to match their numbers from last year, even if they have a terrific season. They were two of the best set-up men in baseball. I don't think we can expect them to match their numbers. I'll be content if they're both in the 3.5 ERA range. Hermanson is a huge question mark right now, and I think it's safe to say that no one, not even the organization, knows what stuff he'll have this year.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 9, 2006 -> 01:34 AM) KW's big success was acquiring pitching depth -- so when Shingo stunk we had Hermanson, then when he went down we had Jenks. And Damaso and Politte were also there if we needed them. It looks like our last man in the bullpen could be a big problem. That's not a big deal by itself -- he just won't see many innings. But one disappointment and one injury later, and it's possible that we'll be scrambling for something. Cintron'll help, I'm just concerned about the depth. As for the two pitches, hell, Foulke basically has one. It's not easy to get people out (k's) at aa and aaa -- he seems to use them well. There's very much reason to be concerned about our bullpen. Between guys being injured, tired from last year, or just inconsistent (no position is even close to having as inconsistent of numbers as the relief position is), our bullpen looks to be weaker than last season. However, other aspects of our team look to be stronger, which will hopefully offset any weaknesses. In reality, we're not the New York Yankees. KW doesn't have the payroll to have superstars at every position with amazing depth. With that in mind, given the bullpen depth issue, I still don't think Baj would have been an option. I never got the sense that Ozzie thought highly of him, in regards to pitching in the majors.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 9, 2006 -> 01:18 AM) He's been nothing less than spectacular in his last 2 years of minor league work, and he's never really had a bad year. Please save the "minor leagues are meaningless" responses -- yeah, okay. Some of us'll take that over about 10 innings in the bigs. Cintron can't hurt, but when we're trading away a guy w/ a good history b/c we have Javier Lopez (with a much longer record of major league ineptitude) looking good in a few innings of spring training, it concerns me a bit, yeah. It's not just his numbers in the majors which makes many of us think he can't be a decent major league reliever. He's a two pitch pitcher, and one of them is a very average fastball with no movement. And yes, minor league numbers don't mean much. Edwin Almonte was supposed to be our closer of the future, as was Joe Valentine and Royce Ring. They all had very good minor league numbers. If Lopez wasn't lefty, he wouldn't be an option. If the Sox weren't a World Series contender this year, then I'd say Baj would have a place on the roster.

QUOTE(bulokis @ Mar 9, 2006 -> 01:13 AM) I just got home from work but I am loving this trade. What's the whole consensus on soxtalk about this deal? I cant go through 26 pages on this thread. Everyone but one person has had good things to say about it. Even the Baj supporters think it's a good move, and the radio reports state Cintron will be a utility outfielder, and Mackowiak will be in the outfield.

Well said ss2k5

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 9, 2006 -> 12:49 AM) Thanks for pissing away another thread guys. We really needed eight more pages to know that RnW is a [gasp] Red Sox fan. Could you guys try one favor? Could you actually argue the content of his posts instead of pointing out that he is [cliffhanger] a bigger Red Sox fan than White? We get it, now what is the point of stalking every post he makes with that? It gets old. I'll ask this....this thread has absolutely nothing to do with his Red Sox. We're all talking about the trade, and everyone is saying how much they like the trade because either a) Cintron is a very solid utility player or B) the great Baj is gone. Then, redandwhite comes into the thread, and basically rips it to shreds saying how he makes too much money, has a low OPS, how the Marlins would have traded for him, etc. It's funny, but I never thought I would be accused to causing trouble by sticking up for the White Sox. As much as their was whiny b****ing going on between myself, redandwhite, and rock, we still managed to discuss in details various aspects of this trade, etc. Considering that Jason was in the middle of this discussion talking about the trade, I thought things were resolved at the end.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Mar 9, 2006 -> 12:18 AM) BOOOOOO! BAD TRADE! BAJ WAS GOING TO BE OUR NEXT GREAT SET-UP MAN! THIS WAS HIS YEAR!! In reality, it is a good trade but puzzling at the same time. Was this trade necessary? Do we need another utility man? Could we afford to give up a decent bullpen guy? We'll see. On the radio, they're saying that Ozzie wanted another utility infielder so Mackowiak can be mostly a reserve outfielder. Makes sense to me.

QUOTE(JimH @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 11:12 PM) Witness: Mackowiak and Cintron. KW was after both of them for a minimum of 18 months each. That's absolutely true. As I mentioned earlier, when KW wants you, he's going to keep going after you. However, the same is true in that if Ozzie doesn't like you, good luck making the team (Munoz and Baj).

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 11:09 PM) 23 pages and counting...good stuff... Shouldn't you be watching the Big East Tournament today? That's right, DePaul's not in it. Just kidding..... Not to change the subject, but you think Mejia and Chandler will come back?

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 11:06 PM) Hence why mlbtraderumors.com is a worthless site. The guy uses fanboards as his source for rumors. Half the stuff we come up with here are "wishes". Imagine if this guy comes here in late June/July when chaveztalk starts up again. June/July? I'm expecting it after opening night if Crede goes 0-4.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 11:01 PM) see payroll from 2005 vs Payroll 2006 or you could look at attendance from both seasons for comparison as well. Rock...this is getting scary. We're typing like the same thing at the same time.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 10:58 PM) "Bajenaru was in the running to earn a spot on the White Sox as a middle reliever, but getting Cintron for him looks like a good move. Still, it's interesting to see that the team that was so hesitant to give Tadahito Iguchi even $2.5 million per season a year ago is going to pay $1.6 million for a rather average backup." To me, this is a stupid statement. The whole franchise has changed since last year's offseason. We're talking about an entire new budget we're dealing with. It doesn't matter, rotoworld always has something bad to say about KW.

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 10:55 PM) Why are we talking about Alex Gonzalez anyways, hes on a different team..I do not feel like reading this entire thing? You might want to. I've been called some terrific names in this thread. Maybe I should put them in my signature?

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 10:53 PM) I like the trade aswell. I just don't think its a fleecing, which has been my stance from the start. Question....if you thought less of Baj, would you think it was a better trade? Is one of the reasons you don't like it is cause they got rid of him? BTW, I'm eagerly awaiting the sight of Baj pitching in Colorado. Best of luck to him though, I really mean it.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 10:41 PM) 1.6 for someone of Cintron's caliber isn't cheap.. at all. It's not cheap, but it's not overly expensive. There's a lot of other crappier players making more money than that. I was unhappy that Timo was making a million last year, but that's just part of the baseball landscape. Cintron isn't great AT ALL, but he's much more valuable than Willie Harris was.

For what Boston already has on their roster, the Gonzalez addition is fine. He's a much better fielder than Cintron, no question about it. What frustrated myself, and others I believe, is that you came on here acting like Cintron was this old veteran who's awful and paid a fortune. If the White Sox acquired him to start on the infield, then that would have been a bad deal. However, as a reserve, Cintron is definitely a solid player.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 10:27 PM) Why is Cintron making $1.6 million considered hefty, but the Red Sox signing a guy with a .319 obp last year, who dipped to 5 homers from 23, perhaps from a lack of special vitamins for $3 million a solid signing? Guys like Gonzalez are going to soon make ticket prices at Fenway even more ridiculous than they are now. Wow, I didn't know he went from 23 to 5 homers last year. I always thought he was a potential juicer.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 10:23 PM) I hate seeing Baj, a favorite of mine, leave this organization. Why though? He might be a great guy, but he's shown nothing at the big league level, and obviously wasn't in Ozzie's plans. There's been a lot of great guys who just never made it with the Sox.....like Jose Paniagua.

I'll say this rnw....I love the Crisp signing for the Red Sox, as I think he's going to keep on getting better. He's a tough out, and seems like a great clubhouse guy. However, I feel the exact opposite about Gonzalez. He has a horrific attitude, and I'm not sure how he'll respond to the Fenway crowd.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 10:18 PM) My purpose on soxtalk is to talk White Sox baseball and shoot the s*** with other respectable people. You aren't a respectable person, so you don't fall into this category. Thanks! If you think Manny is a great guy, then this makes me feel better about myself.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 10:16 PM) I am perplexed at how quick the team dumped Munoz. It's simple...Ozzie's never been a fan of Baj and Munoz. Thus....they gone.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Mar 8, 2006 -> 10:15 PM) What are we arguing about? I'm still not even sure. You're the one who started it, so please inform me on what this argument is you're finishing. The whole argument we had about why you're on this White Sox site, and how we all feel you're purpose on here is to be the Red Sox apologist. Anyways, there's more important things for my fellow White Sox fans to focus on now. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITHOUT BAJ!!!