fathom

QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 07:45 PM) Yea, Ozzie did make those mistakes, but he didnt lose the game for the Sox in any of those instances (or lose the lead like last night). The fact of the matter is, that he might have left Freddy in for too long, but when it comes down to it, the Sox still should have won, and didnt because of their poor fielding, which is something Ozzie cant do. Agreed. Ozzie is the scapegoat for this "collapse" for a lot of people. Some of the most optimistic/positive posters on this site have turned against him lately.

Was I the only one who thought DJ had absolutely no idea what he was talking about in the 9th inning last night? He kept saying that it was better to let Perralta hit a bullet off the wall, rather than walking him leading off the inning. Did DJ know it was a one run game? If it's a two run game, that's a whole different story. However, a walk in that situation is much better than a leadoff double. I saw some people saying that they would have rather seen Jenks give up a homer than a walk? I know there's a big sense of doom with this team now, but YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME! I still vehemently disagree with Ozzie playing the infield back after the Rowand debacle. Oh well, we won....but DJ still has me shaking my head.

QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 07:39 PM) Good question I get pissed off when people blame Ozzie for things which he didnt do. Such as that loss to KC, when Dye and Pods couldnt field. Is it Ozzie's fault? No. But was he blamed? Yes. Is it Ozzie's fault that Jenks has sucked the last two days? No. But was he blamed? Probably. Ozzie was blamed for that KC debacle because he left Garcia in way too long, thus giving KC a chance to get back into the game. I had absolutely no problem with Ozzie letting Jenks pitch the 9th last night. As for the night before, I had a big problem with Marte facing VMart. However, Jenks still should have been able to make the big pitch and get A.F. Boone out.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 07:30 PM) Prior won, Zambrano didn't. Tell me which start really means more to the team. That's one of his best outings of the year, and he still struggled enough that he couldn't finish off the game. Are you trying to say that 7 innings of shutout ball isn't as important as 9 innings of shutout or 1 run ball? With better command that probably would have been the result of that outing. Prior gave up 3 runs, Zambrano gave up 0! I'll take the 7-0 before the 9-3 every single time from my starter. How is it Zambrano's fault that his bullpen couldn't get 6 outs? I'd much rather have my pitcher walk the occasional batter than to just pipe the pitch on the 3-2, and let the batter hit it as far as they can. Ask Mark Buehrle about that!

QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 07:34 PM) Only when you are pessimistic and blaming Ozzie for everything Are you talking about me, or the other 75 percent on this site who have completely turned on Ozzie?

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 07:18 PM) The Cubs lost that game. Because they had to pull him, the Cubs' horses*** bullpen came in and blew the game. That's a major reason to give a s***. The Sox couldn't touch him, but because he often struggles with his control he wasn't available to finish the game. Another inning or two would have made a big difference. He went 7 innings, and didn't allow a run. No matter how you want to try and use that statistic to make your case, that's a fantastic start. That's an even better start than what Prior did the next day, when he went the whole game and allowed 3 runs. It's not like he was only able to go 5 innings because of his pitch count that game.

QUOTE(Felix @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 06:56 PM) Thats basically what I've done for every Sox game since the All-Star game (which is when I bought MLB.tv) Its been great Besides for having to communicate with me, I'm sure!

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 06:27 PM) Exactly...we can't get Greedy. And remember the Rally Crede works in mysterious ways. That's why I'm staying away from official adopting the avatar. The Rally Crede, as Jas proved last night, it based on positive thoughts. With positivity not being one of my strong suits, and being the superstitious fan that I am, I'll gladly stay out of the picture and let my fellow Sox fans pick up the slack.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 05:53 PM) also remember the game he pitched against the Sox. He threw a 1 hitter. But he also walked like 5 guys so that pretty much means he allowed 6 baserunners. He had to come out after 7 innings because his pitch count was so high. Buehrle probably completes that game. Who gives a s***, he didn't allow any runs. Sometimes, it's not a bad thing to walk a batter (no matter what DJ says in the 9th inning). Especially during a game where the opposing team's pitcher had to bat, it's not really a bad thing to pitch around the lower part of the order.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 06:53 PM) that coulda been Nick Swisher I thought it could have been Joe Blanton?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 05:36 PM) Dont forget that Wickman is gone. They are saying Betancort and Riske are going to be shipped in the offseason. Belliard will be gone. They are going to get raped in FA. They have some strong bullpen guys coming up though, especially F. Cabrera. As long as they have their 4 core guys of Hafner, Martinez, Sizemore, and Perralta, they're going to be tough.

There's no comparison between Andruw Jones and Aaron Rowand. Jones is a superstar, and Rowand is an average all around player. Don't forget, Jones isn't exactly old, and he should be hitting his peak this season. But since there's obviously no chance of acquiring Jones now, there's no more reason to look back on what might have been. And the difference between stats that guys had last year like Beltre, etc. is that there was no testing involved. By no means am I saying A. Beltre and others were on roids, but stats this year are much, much more relevant.

Understatement of the year: I woke up in a better mood today than I did the morning before.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 04:13 PM) I believe the Giants are roughly 5 games back at this point. And with the miracle of modern chemistry returning to their lineup...they're not out of it yet. Assuming there's no way he's on roids now, he sure hit that homer a far way last night. In a way, I wish people would stop bashing everything he does, and just enjoy that they're seeing one of the greatest players ever on the field.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 04:55 PM) There is only so much talking you can do especially to guys like Everett and Konerko. I am not the biggest Walker fan but how many hitting coaches are we going to go through. In our park everyone swings for the fences hence better more consistent production on the road. I really believe this is our hitters and not philosophy. Until Uribe and Crede's latest adjustments, I just didn't see a lot of adjustments made by the hitters (something Walker could help with). If your team is struggling hitting the righty offspeed pitch, then you need to get your hitters closer to the plate.

QUOTE(JimH @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 04:54 PM) I love the spin some of you guys put on this whole topic. Uribe says the leg kick is designed to help him with his timing, and he also credited Walker for his work. I really wish some of you would stop pretending you know about the nuances of hitting mechanics, none of us do. It's a constant game of adjustments, some guys are better at it than others. Jim...did you play baseball? I played about 18 years of baseball in my life, and as someone that used a leg kick hitting, I'm pretty comfortable discussing the advantages and disadvantages of it? I haven't seen one place where Uribe credited Walker for helping him with the new approach, nor did I see any mention by Crede of saying Walker told him to keep his hands higher.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 04:35 PM) Before this year started, I estimated how many wins Buehrle can get if he pitches until he's 40 with the same kind of success he's had so far. In the end, it came out to 328 career wins. I doubt he'll get there (especially if he can't beat playoff teams, ha), but it's a nice goal. Especially with Pujols on his team

QUOTE(WSoxMatt @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 04:34 PM) The time on the DL for Crede probably rested his back well enough where he can pull pitches again and be more aggressive!!! Thank you broken pinky, you may have saved our season. While that could easily be a big factor, it all starts with how high Crede is starting his hands. He's such a different hitter at the plate now, as he's able to get inside the ball and drive it. We're not seeing those weak pop ups to the left side of the infield as much now (same goes with Uribe).

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 04:32 PM) See, I don't understand how Uribe could be hard-headed about changing his swing if he changed it so quickly after talking to Hriniak. Did Hriniak give him a Snickers to try it? I think it's pretty clear that Walker should be s***canned when this season ends. Not to steal SSI's thunder, but Walker clearly isn't getting through to these guys.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 04:29 PM) Greg Walker has been trying to get through to Crede for years. It has been in the papers at many different points. Ozzie said the samething at the end of last season. The biggest difference in Uribe is that he has quit swinging at the off-speed crap in the dirt so that he would get some decent pitches to hit. The leg kick is nice, but not swinging at s*** is better. The leg kick has allowed him to keep his hands back more, which also allows him to see the pitch longer. There's been a direct relation between his new leg kick and his patience at the plate.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 04:24 PM) Or it could be they are finally listening to Greg Walker... Both guys are notorious hard heads about listening to coaches, its what got Uribe shipped out of Colorado, and had Crede on the hotseat last year. Ummm....Uribe's new leg kick started after talking to Hriniak, and Crede discovered when watching old films that he needed to keep his hands up more.

Buehrle is a lot more comparable to another Braves star, Tom Glavine.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 04:19 PM) And if you had to pick the pitcher on the Sox staff who's stuff most resembles that of a young Greg Maddux...(possibly throwing with a different arm)...who would that be? 88 mph and a good change-up..... FELIX DIAZ!

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 04:17 PM) Nope neither of them. Greg Maddux. He leads that team in innings pitched, is second in wins, and has started every single game this year. Call me crazy but Maddux also does something else that is key. he keeps his head on straight and doesn't blow up when something goes wrong. Maddux has been their most consistent pitcher this year. Wow, I must say, I completely disagree with that. Jake Westbrook has more wins and innings than Milwood this inning. Does that mean he's better than Milwood? Hell no!

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Sep 21, 2005 -> 04:16 PM) plus his physical issues with him being out of shape will hurt his career. Plus he doesn't give you the innings that Buehrle does. Zambrano pitches a s***load of innings, especially for a strikeout pitcher. It will be interesting to see if Zambrano loses 20 pounds like he wants to this offseason.