fathom

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 03:01 PM) The Sox also had two balls caught on the track, one of them would have been a 3 run HR IIRC. The thing about baseball is they all counted for the samething... Outs. I definitely agree. All I was pointing out was that there was another team on the field last night, and it wasn't just the Sox who were either getting all the breaks or making bad pitches/errors. I bet a lot of Indians fans were upset that Sizemore didn't catch PK's double. Sure didn't seem like he jumped too well to try and catch that ball. If Jason Tyner could catch that ball, Sizemore could have also.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:39 PM) I understand a loss is a loss, but you have to give credit where it's due. FOR a team that's "played like s***," we did well against the hottest team up right now. Not to mention a team whom the Sox have had trouble with(except for earlier this year, WHEN the Sox played much better). Think about it. We had trouble against them?

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:56 PM) Oh well. These next two weeks cannot end fast enough. No kidding. Look at the second line of my signature. These games just aren't as fun as they should be. Last night's game was exciting as hell, but it just isn't as enjoyable as it should be. In 13 games, we'll know what the future of this team is for the 2005 season. Hopefully, it's a playoff series.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:52 PM) I've said it before. I'll say it again: knock on wood, winning this division, the way the Sox have played this year, SHOULD be easy. Are they playing now the way they've played earlier this year? Hell, no, but it IS the SAME TEAM. It can be turned around. Don't forget the 2000 Yankees, guys. Sure, we're no Yankees, but based on how good we've been overall this year, we sure as hell could be. We were so good early in the year because of two main things that we don't have now: a leadoff man who can steal bases and a healthy Dustin Hermanson.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:44 PM) I have never seen such a turn around of the attitude towards a manager, but I have to partially agree, in teh sense I'm not losing my mind. I do wonder why he's doing things lately, though. Marte in a 1 run situation? That was the only thing I was nervous about, but I think it was enough. Well, that and Vizcaino, but HE didn't f*** everything up. I'm obviously not speaking for myself, but I think a lot of people were willing to give Ozzie the benefit of the doubt for some of his questionable decisions when this team was playing good baseball and on top of the baseball world. 12.5 games later in the standings, I think a lot of people are realizing that this guy is basically clueless when it comes to in-game situations. When a team is struggling, they need EVERYONE to focus just a little better. Ozzie failed this team last night, and far too often in the last month or so.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:46 PM) They never have jenks elevate the ball. On two strikes how hard is it to catch up to above belt heat. I really like Jenks and his attitude, but I've noticed that on 2 strike pitches, he will lose his mechanics and just try to throw 150 mph. That type of composure is something he'll get with experience.

QUOTE(Bias @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:45 PM) So the entire staff can't pitch inside??? What about Freddy? He was throwing meat all night and maybe came inside one time. That was their m.o. the last few years, earlier this year they were coming inside a ton. I just don't see them coming inside too often and whether or not it's reality it appears they are afraid of throwing strikes...at least to me. Garcia has never thrown inside this year. For someone that can throw 94 mph, his fastball rarely causes a swing and a miss. He's basically become a fastball/slider pitcher, and hangs a lot of sliders to righty batters now. His arm is nowhere near as electric as it was a few years ago.

Our pitchers, especially relievers, aren't very good at pitching inside. In case you haven't noticed, whenever our catchers set up inside late in the game, they either hit the batter or come close to hitting them. Jenks put that pitch in the one place Boone could hurt him. A fastball up in the zone would have been a K or a weak pop up. A good curve, and Boone's likely a K also.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:36 PM) Yeah, but there's not a great need for Vazquez right now with a rotation of Buerhle/Garcia/Garland/Contreras/B-Mac in 2006. Oh yeah, I agree. Anyone think the Sox might try and see if Cotts can become a starter again? I've heard rumors of it, and it might be worth a try. If he fails, then put him back in relief again. Whatever we do, we need to get a few cheaper pitchers for the next few years. Our big 3 will cost a ton.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:31 PM) I understand we had a tough loss last night, but what is all this crap about "they are done?" What is this crap, yes CRAP, about "they played terrible last night." LMAO. I saw a few too many walks, but other than that, I saw a stellar performance. Ozzie took the risk with Marte and this time it didn't pay off. That doesn't mean we played "poorly." Quite frankly, when you take into account the fact we took on the hottest team in baseball now, or so it seems, we didn't quite experience the "massacre" some people were expecting. Based on how GOOD we actually played yesterday, I have good feelings about the rest of the series. There's no such thing as moral victories now. You win or you lose, that's all that matters. We played like absolute s*** in Minnesota, and still won two games. Who cares how we played though, it resulted in 2 games off of the magic number.

I thought KW had shown a lot of interest in Vazquez in the past?

It's amazing that 149 games into the season, Ozzie still has no feel for which pitchers should be in to face which batters. Cotts has some of the best numbers I've ever seen from a lefty in regards to facing righties.

While this season seems to hit road block after road block, the one thing that stays consistent is that soxtalk.com is a great place to come to and talk about our beloved team. I know everyone expresses their emotions for the team in a different way, but there's no better site for discussing what is going on with this team. I just wanted to thank everyone in charge with running this place, and my fellow Sox fans.

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:13 PM) Until they're eliminated, the Sox are IN. I don't think Cleveland could have played a much better game than they did last night and they still barely beat us and Ozzie pretty much handed them the game. Sorry, but I still don't fear this Indians team. Casey Blake dropped a flyball, which lead to a big inning. The Indians also had massive warning track power last night, as they could have easily been up 5-0 in the 2nd inning. I bet the Indians fans are saying how great of a comeback the Sox made last night, and it still wasn't good enough to beat them.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:12 PM) Voting? What in the hell are you talking about? Ozzie was chosen by the hand of God Himself to win that award. There is no way he could lose. Remember when I got into an argument comparing Ozzie to Frank Robinson about two months ago? Some poster on this site was saying in early August that Ozzie should never be criticized because he would be the MotY. My response to that was: Yeah, and after June, Frank Robinson would have won NL MotY. It's a 162 game season....and all it takes is a 4 game winning streak by the Sox to reverse this awful karma. We've done it numerous times before this season.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 02:06 PM) Oh, pfft. What would you people know? You've only been fans for years upon years. Ozzie is the AL MANAGER OF THE YEAR!!!1!1 Didn't you know? Voting for all awards takes place on July 31st.

We've also lost about 5 games in the Wild Card lead in the last 10 games to the Yankees. Again, it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else says right now. If this team doesn't make the playoffs, the 2005 White Sox team will be as synonymous with the word choking as the 1919 White Sox were with gambling.

There's a lot of irony in this thread.

QUOTE(Y2HH @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 12:22 PM) 90 wins, 2.5 game lead, playing .605 on the season, still probably going to the playoffs...and your crying. Hell, I'd take 90+ wins EVERY year even if it meant missing the playoffs. I got a team 5 miles north I think you should cheer for. Fans like you are more fitting for them. The Cubs don't have to worry about fan backlash and lackluser attendance the following season if they had a collapse like the Sox are having. One of the biggest negatives of a Sox collapse is that attendance would likely decrease next year. Now, I wouldn't care about attendance if it didn't have a direct impact on the team's payroll. But since it does, that's a big concern for future seasons.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 08:38 AM) Wrong on the OF prospects. They've got Carlos Quentin, Jon Zeringue and Josh Kroeger who are in their top 5 prospects. I was just going off the fact they have S. Drew and Connor Jackson in the infield in the years to come, as well as the possibility of Justin Upton in the outfield. Since we lack any big time infield prospects to trade, our best minor league chips are either Sweeney/Young or Gio. I'm definitely more interested in Tracy than Overbay.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 08:30 AM) I don't know about that. I'd say Arizona would prefer good young pitching, than to established pitching right now, considering they have Vazquez, Webb, Ortiz, Halsey and Vargas in there. For instance, a Marte, Bajenaru, Haigwood package may look appealing to them. Can't Vazquez make himself a FA this offseason? Also, I'm pretty sure that the package you suggest wouldn't be enough to get such a promising hitter like Tracy. I guarantee the DBacks could get a better deal than that. Remember, the DBacks have been close a couple of times to acquiring Contreras. Also, the DBacks don't have a lot of good outfield prospects in their system. They might be very interested in the likes of Sweeney or Young.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 08:24 AM) And I think Chad Tracy is going to end up being that guy, and I hope so, because I'd take over Lyle Overbay who I know most people want as the replacement 1B/DH. Tracy will cost us Contreras.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 08:24 AM) And I think Chad Tracy is going to end up being that guy, and I hope so, because I'd take over Lyle Overbay who I know most people want as the replacement 1B/DH. It's too late for me to look up stats, but from what I observe, Overbay is a terrible 2nd half player.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 08:17 AM) Yeah exactly what I thought. Speaking of Nomar, he's probably headed to the Dodgers or somewhere else, but if he is going to play 3B, could possibly be an option, but I doubt people would be for it. I'd be all for it. It won't happen though. From what I've heard, he's not exactly a White Sox fan.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 20, 2005 -> 08:16 AM) I'd say Adrian Beltre could be had, although I know most here probably wouldn't be in favor of that. Shea Hillenbrand's another. If you just look at the position, only about 8 or 9 players who play 3B everyday, have an OPS over .800. It's hard to find a good hitter there. Shea's not a 3b anymore. I'd be all for an Iguchi for Beltre trade, as 2nd baseman are easier to find. The Mariners might be interested in boosting their Japanese market some more. It will be interesting to see if Crede can continue hitting well with his new hand adjustment. Sometimes I think that if we can boost our offense at DH, etc., that we should bring him back for one season. I don't really mind a 7-8-9 of AJP, Uribe, and Crede. We have got to find a legit number 3 hitter.