fathom

Wow, all I was saying is that if I had to choose between Duque and Small right now, I'd choose Small for the Sox. If we're going to proclaim McCarthy to be Cy McCarthy, then Small deserves some acclaim also. Maybe I got into the Small/Duque argument late, so I'm not sure if I chimed in on the wrong topic.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 03:15 AM) You really know nothing about baseball if you're calling for Dusty Baker to replace Guillen. Same with Brenly, and several others on that list. Yeah, Guillen is a bad in-game manager, but guys like Dusty, Brenly, and McClendon are awful all around managers. I'd take Steve Stone as my manager though, and this is coming from someone who hates the Cubs.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 03:13 AM) If Aaron Small was on the Sox, you'd trott out the same line that you use for guys like Bajenaru. What the hell are you talking about? Small has proven that he can be a successful MLB starter in the AL so far this season. All I've ever said about Baj is that he obviously wasn't highly regarded within the organization, and that I could understand why Adkins was on the team above him because Ozzie liked him from the year before, and Adkins was stretched out to go longer than Baj.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 03:11 AM) What matters more right now, respecting el duque or winning games? Isn't this similar to when Ozzie said that we didn't need to make a trade at the deadline, we were set with what we had because we had the best record in baseball?

I'll take Aaron Small over Duque in a heartbeat.

I'll be happy if I don't have to hear another reference to a past accomplishment of Duque for the rest of this season. Luis Sojo had some clutch moments in the playoffs....does that mean he deserves to keep playing near the end of the season even if it's obvious his skills have deteriorated and isn't the best option for the team?

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 02:46 AM) OK, fathom let me call you out: who is the manager you describe? They all f*** up. They all play percentages. We're not getting good pitching and we're banged up. So we're not winning like we did earlier. We've never really hit the ball all year. It ain't Oz's fault. Of course all managers are going to make mistakes. Even yours truly makes some mistakes We're banged up? Did I miss something? Besides Frank being out, we're pretty damn healthy compared to most teams. To say none of this is Ozzie's fault is just as wrong as someone say it's all Ozzie's fault. I don't watch other games as closely as I do the Sox, so I can't comment on manager's style. However, I don't see many other managers leave their starting pitchers out in the game so long, even when everyone in the park knows they're done for that day. Also, I don't see many other managers not letting their closer start the 9th.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 02:20 AM) Well, yeah...and it's also possible that team loses every single game, but not probable nor logical... I know, it was just the point of what I was trying to say. There's no written rule that a team is guaranteed to win 50 pct of their games or that a team can't maintain a hot streak for longer than a month. Some of the posters on here would have made you believe that those are in the MLB handbook.

QUOTE(scotty22hotty @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 02:20 AM) I never thought that sox fans could be pussies... then I joined this forum. =/ Why be sox fans if you have no trust in them? Here's the funny thing....it doesn't matter what the f*** we say, we have absolutely no impact on the outcome of a game/season. It's the beauty of message boards.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 02:16 AM) Fathom, I just wonder what kind of manager would please you? It's not like Oz is re-inventing the wheel. I disagree with his playing some of the stiffs he's been playing but mostly it's been because of injuries, bad backs, etc. It does seem like we changed as a team after we built the big lead, resting a lot of guys and playing some stiffs, but it's mostly because they needed the rest with bad backs and groin woes of Pods. On the field, I want the type of manager that you don't notice, and the type of manager that doesn't need Hawk and DJ to make bulls*** excuses for why he's doing certain things. Here's the one key I've always said I wanted from a manager: to put the team in the best chance to succeed for THAT game (of course, taking into consideration the things off the field like injuries, etc.). I don't feel like Ozzie does a very good job with this. I know I'm not the only one who feels like we've had to overcome our own manager to win some games this year. I want a manager who if your team has a lead between 1 and 3 in the last inning, you put the closer into the game if they're healthy and have been successful that year. If I lose, I'm going down w/my closer and not some lefty who's just as likely to allow the lefty to reach base as he is to get him out.

QUOTE(JimH @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 01:57 AM) How are you gonna be next year, when the race is a lot tighter, when the Sox don't get off to a big division lead or God forbid, are actually not in 1st place since Day One? It's a baseball season, the players are up and down, it's the nature of the game. With the good comes the bad, that's the way it is unfortunately. The funny thing is that I've been basically saying the same thing for the last few months. While everyone was saying that all the Sox had to do was win 50 pct of their games, etc....I was the person saying that there's no guarantee that the Sox win another game all season. Haven't you seen my post recently which state how Sox fans shouldn't jump off a bridge if they don't make the playoffs this year? I truly don't think that the team this season is a team of destiny, and don't feel like this is a "must win" season. We're a solid team, but for the Sox to have the record they have is one of the biggest surprises in my sports following life.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 02:12 AM) Oh yeah, I'm gonna say it right now. My sleeper for the '06 NFL Draft is Bruce Gradkowski QB from Toledo, he'll be the next successful NFL QB to come out of the MAC, comming right off the shoe laces of Charlie Fry of course. He's a system QB, as Toledo makes a living out of throwing short, precise passes.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 02:08 AM) Cmon Fathom, I got to agree with Jim here. Cmon you don't take guys out to save arms later. Fathom, our team has hit the brick wall. I do not think Cleveland is gonna win 70 percent of its games. Hopefully they get beat soon and drop 4-5 in a row. If Cleveland wins 7 of 10 or 8 of 10 the rest of the way, I guess we will blow what was a 15 game lead. I agree with Jim. The second guessing is ridiculous in some cases. I hope our guys are coming to the park with fire every day. I don't know how to gauge that. But if Mark, Jon and Fred suck now, it's not Oz's fault. If those 3 suck we probably are going to blow the division. If some of the recent efforts we've seen lately suggest the players are bringing 100 pct energy to the park, then we're not very good at all. My comment about using the full tank is dealing with the fact that Ozzie was managing the starting pitching like we had two relievers healthy in the bullpen. How many times in the last few months has he let his starting pitcher go 7 or 8 innings, even though they had given up a lot of runs or were struggling to just barely get out of the previous inning?

Jim....I'm one of the few people on this board that have the balls to suggest Ozzie should do something before the actual play instead of playing Monday Morning Quarterback. There have been countless times this season where Ozzie pitched Garcia, Garland, Buehrle, and even Duque for one inning too long for seemingly no reason. Is it a coincidence that they're fading down the stretch? It's too hard to tell. Jim...you know this is the way I am. With the stuff I say on this site, when the Sox are winning, I look like a negative asshole. When they're losing, people line up behind me. Of course, I'm rooting as much as anyone for the Sox to win. Just because I think Ozzie is a terrible manager, it doesn't make me any less of a Sox fan than you or anyone else on this board.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 01:38 AM) Geez fathom, I don't get the criticism of Oz. When AJ isn't hitting and Iguchi isn't hitting and Everett isn't hitting and we're playing Blum all the time, we are a horses*** lineup. The bottom line is it isn't Oz's fault that Mark, Jon and Freddie haven't been good of late. If they are not dominating and we're not catching the ball, we're going to lose with our s*** lineup. Or maybe he shouldn't have used 100 pct of what's in the tank for the starting pitcher nearly every game this season? How many times this season could we have afforded to take out a starting pitcher an inning earlier to maybe save some stamina for the rest of the season. All I know is I've never seen a team with a double digit lead still pitch their starting pitcher basically the maximum amount of innings during their start. We have a very good, deep bullpen....but Ozzie seems intent on making sure he gets 7 innings out of his starter every night.

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 01:37 AM) I respect the fact that you've got questions about this team, but I read the words "don't make the playoffs" so much in your posts that I am completely lost on how you throw about those words so easily. Have you looked at the #'s? Do you realize that our woes in the recent months would be nothing compared to the collapse that would have to occur in the next 25 days to eliminate us from the playoffs? I mean, look at the schedule, man. Look at the wild card race. Unless CLE takes 6/6 from us coupled with poor play against KC and MIN (atleast 2 sweeps) we're going to be in the playoffs. Now what we do in the playoffs is completely debatable, but reading your posts about "don't make the playoffs" make me feel like I'm watching a bad episode of 20/20 discussing the chances of two meteors colliding in the earth's atmosphere resulting in huge chunks of debris destroying major cities...could it happen, sure....is it really something worth discussing, no. I know all the numbers, and I also know our remaining schedule. I look at the Indians team right now, and I expect they'll win about 70 pct of the rest of their games. I also don't think we match up very well with them due to their outstanding offense. We're going to have to be able to outslug them in a few games to win. I can't see us beating them 1-0 again this season.

QUOTE(Colorado Sox Fan @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 01:37 AM) Sould be "DP" not "AJ". AJP hit into an amazing amount of double plays last year. We're lucky he's only hit into the amount he has so far this year.

QUOTE(JimH @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 01:33 AM) Just wanted to clarify. The part of your post I quoted sure seemed to implicate Guillen and Cooper, and most of your posts implicate Guillen. When you lose 6-1 and 10-5, generally it ain't the manager, all the "they should have hit Dye 3rd instead of Everett, they should have put Cotts in the 7th instead of Marte, why does Timo ever get to play" rants aside. I think when a team starts to slide like the Sox have, you need a strong manager at the top to keep everyone together. From my point of view, Ozzie has not done a good job at that between the attendance comments, Buehrle's whining about cheating, etc. There are some games where we don't have a chance, no matter who's batting 3rd. However, I've never thought of Ozzie as a manager who can make decisions during a game that will help the team win. All I know is that a lot of managers could look good with a bullpen of Cotts, Politte, Jenks, and Hermanson.

QUOTE(JimH @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 01:27 AM) So this whole slide is Ozzie Guillen's and Don Cooper's fault? I would guess again, and maybe lay it at the feet of the players who aren't getting it done. I never said that it's just their fault. Go back and look at a post from a month ago, I feel like this has been a total organizational collapse. From the GM to the Manager to the coaches to the players. All I know is that I just hope KW isn't the scapegoat if the Sox don't make the playoffs.

QUOTE(JimH @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 01:24 AM) What's the difference anyways, 80% of this board carries their opinion with the conviction of a windsock anyways. 0-4, trade his ass, 4-4, sign him to a big extension.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 12, 2005 -> 01:21 AM) BTW -- don't quote me on it, but I don't think we draw Santana for next weekend's series at the Dome. So, there's your good news of the day. CWS... I like the way you're thinking tonight. The funny thing is that I said that same Santana factoid around the 7th inning today when the game was obviously over. Also, my feeling for the last few months was that if this team didn't make the playoffs, I honestly wouldn't be upset. If you can't make the playoffs with the leads we've had, you flat out don't deserve to make it.

I've had enough of seeing Rowand foul off every meatball from a righty pitcher, and then either striking out on a low slider or chopping the ball to the left side of the field.

I don't think it's as much that they're tired as it is that they're not energized. This team clearly took the foot off of the accelerator around July 31st, and outside of a stretch against a struggling Tigers team, they haven't been able to regain any swagger at all. I know people got sick as hell of me saying it, but the Sox aren't talented enough to try and coast to the division. While Ozzie and Cooper were busy setting, but not setting, their postseason rotation, the team on the field completely got away from what they were doing great in the first half of the year.

CWS.... We don't agree often, but I definitely think we need to move Uribe up in the order. Honestly, what the f*** do we have to lose right now? Our offense has struggled for so long, changes need to be made. I'd have no problem with Uribe in the 3rd spot, and PK in the 4th spot. Against a righty, Rowand needs to be near the bottom of the order. What I don't understand is why we seem to promote guys higher in the order the more they struggle. Also, why not give someone like Borchard a chance to get hot and spark the offense? The thing is, we need some people to step up and carry this offense like PK and Uribe have been doing. Dye has left a ton of guys on base lately.