CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:02 PM) When you're out all night pulling b****es, 10 AM is early. He was probably still out doing his thang at that point when he looks down at his cell phone, half-tuned, and sees it's 10:33 and says "oh s*** (in Spanish)" and gets to the ballpark at 11:52, just in time to get his gear on, scratch his nuts, and take his spot in the bullpen. (keep him away from Starlin) My "flake" reference was more a joke about his (past) cocaine use anyway more than an indictnent of his lateness

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:42 PM) I mean whatever this isn't the NBA. We have 25 players, we can afford for one to be a "flake". Right? Being late a lot doesn't exactly endear yourself to management in any profession. I mean you're staying in the team hotel at least on the road . Maybe have to get to the park by 10 AM for a 1 PM game not real hard to do. Don't think Magic liked that too much.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 05:45 PM) Some insight into why he released http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgersnow/l...y#axzz2mdUBTGu6 Furthermore, Belisario was frequently tardy to the clubhouse on days of games, particularly when the start time was early. http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgersnow/l...y#ixzz2metKkOtD So they're saying he was a"flake".

Mariners offering Cano 10yrs/$230M per MLB Network.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 12:19 PM) I think this will cut into Dunn's time far more than it will Abreu's, but I guess that's just opinion. We'll have to see how that plays out. That makes sense, and I understand it from that aspect. Like I said, I'm not crazy about this move either, but it's small. Like you, I think it stunts the development of some unknown. It's likely that the unknown is someone like Brent Lillibridge or Tyler Greene, but it could also be Carlos Quentin too. It's incredibly frustrating because if the team is serious about winning, they don't go into the season with 3 exclusive 1B/DHs but rather sign or trade for a guy like Craig Gentry (who I seem to remember mashed lefties and was also great defensively; if I'm mistaken, just think lefty masher) who does have added versatility. If they're serious about rebuilding, why are they bringing back a guy who is almost 40? It doesn't make sense other than as a gesture of respect and loyalty, which seems silly. Still, if done right, I don't see it being totally unfeasible that this move actually benefits the Sox and helps them win more games. At this point, in theory, you have a perfect platoon at DH. No, it is not the ideal spot for a platoon, but it will get those two out of the lineups when they should be out of the lineups, so it's not inconceivable that they could ultimately get like 3 WAR out of the DH spot and 8 WAR total between 1B and DH, which would be an incredible improvement. Add an upgrade at 3B and C, even if marginal upgrades, and the Sox almost look like a team that will battle for 2nd or 3rd. Ultimately, I think it's a nil move. I don't think it's going to have much of an effect either way. That's why I really don't care. Right. As a follow up to the Abreu move it was terrible. Instead of constructing a better roster looking for some upgrades like Gentry and Bourjos, both of whom I lamented missing out on in past posts or getting that LH bat or signing Salty or making some move that improves the offense or defense we get an upgrade at DH. DH !, a position that was the least of my concerns when we already have Dunn, Abreu and Viciedo or a myriad of others who can't field the damn ball . Tahnk you for a well thought out response.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 12:14 PM) The trouble with "improving the bench right now" is that it actually doesn't. First of all, aside from Gillaspie, our entire bench is RH. Furthermore, outside of De Aza and Dunn, there aren't lefties in the lineup. In other words, if paul konerko is pinch hitting late in the game...it doesn't improve the matchup unless he pinch hits for Dunn after a lefty is brought in. Furthermore, it was noted to me in the other thread how hesitant the White Sox are to use their backups at the catcher's position when they only have 1 backup. We've all seen this through the years, usually the guy who starts the game finishes the game and only rarely do they sub in. Now, the "one backup" state that we have for catcher is the same situation 5 different positions are in. If its an RBI situation, outside of 1b, 2b and 3b, Konerko pinch hitting leaves no one on the bench capable of playing those positions if an injury happens. If you stick Leury in CF in the 7th inning after Konerko pinch hits and then Viciedo turns an ankle or something like that, we get to see Keppinger in LF. The proper reaction to that would be to be even more hesitant to pinch hit for anyone because there is only 1 backup for the entire OF and SS positions. On top of that...what happens if, for example, Viciedo or Garcia get hit by a ball and need 2-3 days off and legitimately can't go? On those days...there are zero backups on the entire roster. You can't pinch hit for Leury or anyone else because you don't have a single backup for those positions. Basically, they need to cut Keppinger or Dunn to make this work, because otherwise it's a trainwreck, and any team the white sox approach in a trade should knwo that. I really don't think Dick cares ( and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he understands concepts involved in the use of the roster) so your lengthy explanation is a waste. He's just being contrary.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 12:11 PM) I have that same feeling in the back of my mind.....Not sure why upgrading the DH position as opposed to someone like a Angel Sanchez who isn't gonna get a lot of playing time eliminates that feeling. Because despite your arguments that it doesn't hurt the team you know in your heart it was the wrong decision on based on the rebuild/retool that has to be given every consideration.

TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood, And sorry I could not travel both And be one traveler, long I stood And looked down one as far as I could To where it bent in the undergrowth; 5 Then took the other, as just as fair, And having perhaps the better claim, Because it was grassy and wanted wear; Though as for that the passing there Had worn them really about the same, 10 And both that morning equally lay In leaves no step had trodden black. Oh, I kept the first for another day! Yet knowing how way leads on to way, I doubted if I should ever come back. 15 I shall be telling this with a sigh Somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I— I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference. Robert Frost

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 11:41 AM) I still don't understand why this matters. The White Sox gave a huge contract to Abreu, Hahn and Konerko have both said he's going to be a part time player. I believe you are insinuating that Konerko is going to get the majority of playing time. He's not. Monstrosity meaning good, as in he was a monster. People saw the Dunn signing coming from a mile away. The Sox tried to trade for him in July of that season. That was an obvious hole that needed to be filled, and Dunn has disappointed. There were not many people upset with it at the time. What possible trickle down effect do you think this Konerko signing can have? Guess you were using the literal defintion whereas I was using the the more standard definition of something large and ugly. Was hoping it wasn't a deliberate attempt to deceive. So I'll be happy since you say it wasn't. One not related to the roster is that for all the good feelings signing Abreu gave me this had the exact opposite effect. And I know I'm far from being alone in that regard. Over at SSS most of the over 500 comments on the initial reaction were much the same as mine. What price can you put on dashing hopes of competing ? Again, asking me to predict the future as far as the construction of future rosters is beyond impossible to say. How can I know if that one move not made because of this would've been the best move of Hahn's career or the worst ?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 11:33 AM) So you are saying because they wanted to be more flexible back then, it was dumb. Now, signing Paulie makes them less flexible and that is dumb. We need circus music. If you can't understand then you need to play your own circus music and quit trying to understand the use of a 25 man roster in baseball. Your purposefully turning what I said into something much less. Back then it was dumb. Now it's dumb for the same reason. Doing things that have nothing to do with winning baseball games.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:24 AM) Thome was going to be the starting DH for the White Sox with Kotsay moving to DH. Thome ultimately signed with the Sox most direct rival and had a monstrosity of a season. Konerko was only going to sign with the White Sox. He is going to be a bench player. Those situations are not comparable. I liken this signing to that Kosuke Fukudome. Montrosity of a season ? Is that good or bad . Sounds bad to me . He signed a one-year, $1.5 million deal with the Twins in 2010 in hopes of showing he could still swing the bat. And that's what he did, pounding 25 homers and putting up 59 RBIs in 276 at-bats. .410 OBP. In the meantime the Sox used Kotsay, Andruw Jones , Mark Teahen Omar Vizquel and finally Manny Ramirez instead . The Sox decided they needed to do things their way instead of what turned out to be the best free agent value on the market. Back then the move was made in the name of "flexibility." Results : Twins win division despite losing Morneau for 29 games when Thome replaced him and the Twins went 19-10 . Now they are forfeiting flexibility.Then they realized they needed a LH power hitter and signed Dunn. Downhill since then. I was talking the whole trickle down effect theory how its helped Minnesota and hurt the Sox not comparing anything else. One move begets a move ,which begets a move ,which begets another move. The whole thing has the same stamp on it . We'll do things OUR way forget being smart.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:29 AM) And I agree 100% with that. There you go. That's the whole crux of the matter .We're not lrgitimately trying to win in 2014 after being told repeatedly we were.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:20 AM) Well, he is a guy whose spot might be taken by Konerko. You complain about Konerko coming back. You write off a young, fast, plus defensive player as well. Just shows, no matter what, you would have complained. I write off being forced to accept Leury Garcia because of PK not Leury Garcia.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:16 AM) Paul Konerko is the 25th man. He isn't expected to be a key contributor. He has signed to occassionally DH, and maybe play 1B on occassion. It isn't remotely like passing on Thome. It is passing on a Tyler Greene-type. You don't know what it's passing on ,no one does, but I'd sure like to find out. But you might be right I am placing to much faith in managements ability to make a right decision for the franchise's future.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:13 AM) With the Sox defense last year we need all the defensive replacements we can get- Ok so in a late game situation who do you wanna see replaced? With Leury and/or Danks you clean up 2 positions by putting one of them in CF and moving De Aza to LF where he is better suited. If they carry both Leury and Danks, which is a possibility then you can have Leury at 3B. Who else do you wanna take out? Do you want to see PK get a hit in the late innings or extra innings and watch him try to score the winning run ?- Why can't they just put Danks or Leury in the game to pinch run after Paul gets on? If the game goes into more innings do you want to have his range at 1st base ? Assuming he came in to face a LHP, I'll take that chance all day. Can he play 3rd base or outfield or catcher when one of our bad offensive players gets pinch hit for ? No but Leury Garcia or Jordan Danks can. It's a non story to me. We have the versatility, much like the Indians did last year with players like Aviles and Raburn, to counteract having a player like Pauley(or Giambi in Clevelands case) on the bench. Wonderful Leury Garcia is your answer . Have fun looking up from the bottom again in 2014.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:06 AM) They aren't BSing you. The first baseman in 2014 is a 26 year old Cuban who may be the most prolific hitter in that country's history. Angel Sanchez, Tyler Greene, Koske Fukudome...those are some of the 25th roster spots in the past. Paul Konerko is no worse than those players. Konerko isn't penciled in for 150 starts batting clean up. Fine see ya in the 10th year of the rebuild when we are the Royals and the Pirates. Look at the trickle down effect of not signing Thome for one year. It's been chronicled before. Signing PK is one less move the Sox could've made. How do I know the road not taken could make all the difference ?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:01 AM) This is complaining just to complain. It's the 25th roster spot. The who is all that matters. You want a young guy who misses an opportunity to actually develop into a decent player sitting on the bench instead? What good does that do? Oh for f***s sake if you want to bury your head in the sand go right ahead. Excuse me if I don't like getting bulls***ted by Sox management or wanting a better team as quickly as possible. Just delay the rebuild another year who cares, its Paul Konerko. !

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:46 AM) Who did you have in mind for the 25th roster spot? For all we know, this move prevents the White Sox from using Marcus Semien as a utility infielder because Ventura "likes his hustle" or whatever. Maybe they use it on Brent Morel. What difference does it make in the end? This move is meaningless. Anybody the Sox would have used it on is better off getting regular ABs in AAA or AA. Again I ask, what is the ultimate effect? Whose roster spot is this affecting? The who is not the point and you know it . The point is we've been fed garbage about competting and getting younger ,more versatile , more speed , better D the future and now we're getting older, less versatile , slower, bad D and the past. I have no idea what the butterfly-effect could be on this team ,what one move that might have been made can effect other moves. Asking me to predict the future because of this move is a pretty safe argument on your part and not worthy of you.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:37 AM) And how often do AL teams pinch hit? How many defensive replacements do you need? Leury or Danks can play CF while ADA shifts to LF in late game situations, where else do you need a defensive replacement? Do you want to fill the bench with LH hitters? Danks very well could be on the bench. I just don't think this is anything to be upset about, like another poster said, would you rather have PK or Angel Sanchez/Tyler Greene? How many DH's do you need ? With the Sox defense last year we need all the defensive replacements we can get. Do you want to see PK get a hit in the late innings or extra innings and watch him try to score the winning run ? If the game goes into more innings do you want to have his range at 1st base ? Can he play 3rd base or outfield or catcher when one of our bad offensive players gets pinch hit for ? There's no way you can argue that a team needs more versatility at DH than they do at all the other positions. When you have a team full of offensive and defensive suck yes you need to pinch hit and replace them defensively as much as possible or platoon them in the 1st place . Can PK platoon with anyone but Dunn ? ABreu DH/1st base, Dunn DH /1st Base Konerko DH/1stbase , Viciedo DH/future 1st base . Woo hoo we have a whole team of DH's.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:29 AM) How about meaningless? Because frankly, this year, I could not care less about the Konerko signing. I want to see the organization taking steps forward. What the White Sox look like matters only slightly to me, because they are going to be bad. If they were intending on being good, it's a completely different story. They are paying a debt of gratitude to Konerko for almost 15 years of service with the White Sox. It's a classy move. Yeah that's what I've been hearing this whole off season from the countless ruminations on signing free agents and making trades from all our fans "we want a classy move to hell with getting better or competing."

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:08 AM) DHs don't play defense sir, they aren't technically a position player either, and doesn't adding a platoon player/guy who can come in late against LH pitching make them more diverse? The offseason is far from complete, I don't see how upgrading the DH position isn't something that detours them from the possibility of them competing. Because of PK they will have one less pinch runner, one less defensive replacement , one less LH handed hitter in other words less versatility. You don't strive to have more versatility at DH when you're coming off 99 losses. You strive to updgrade positions. Rationalize it any way you want. This move spells "we are not as embarassed about last year as we previously led you to believe because PK was a big part of that embarrassment." You move to the future by cutting ties with the past not hugging it so you feel all warm and cozy with it.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 08:47 PM) It's ridiculously early, and they've already upgraded 1B and DH(A PK/Dunn platoon is better than just having one or the other). What are they BSing about? SSS says it better than I could . http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/12/5/5176...of-paul-konerko All that lip service BS about wanting to compette and most of all about getting younger and what Hahn said at the trade deadline last year "more diversified offensive attack. We need better defense. We need a more athletic combination of position players on our roster." Does PK bring any of that ?

QUOTE (Hawkfan @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 07:19 PM) Over under on dongs next year? 17 For Konerko ? Gimme some of what you're smoking.

So the Sox say they owe it to Konerko to go out on his own terms. How about they owe it to the fans to stop BSing us. Oh yea we want to compete. Konerko was paid massive amounts of money to play for the Sox. You don't owe him anything. Try owing the fans a winner. The White Sox "family" atmosphere includes guys like Baines, Ventura and Konerko but the fans are not part of the family. Apparently we are the red-headed step child.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 06:07 PM) Hahn's secret plan is to do nothing significant to make PK not want to play with them , then after he annouces his retirement ,Bam !! I feel better now. Paul Konerko will tell the White Sox if he intends to play in 2014 before the Winter Meetings begin December 9th, a source tells Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com (on Twitter). from mlbtraderumors