CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 11:41 AM) I still don't understand why this matters. The White Sox gave a huge contract to Abreu, Hahn and Konerko have both said he's going to be a part time player. I believe you are insinuating that Konerko is going to get the majority of playing time. He's not. Monstrosity meaning good, as in he was a monster. People saw the Dunn signing coming from a mile away. The Sox tried to trade for him in July of that season. That was an obvious hole that needed to be filled, and Dunn has disappointed. There were not many people upset with it at the time. What possible trickle down effect do you think this Konerko signing can have? Guess you were using the literal defintion whereas I was using the the more standard definition of something large and ugly. Was hoping it wasn't a deliberate attempt to deceive. So I'll be happy since you say it wasn't. One not related to the roster is that for all the good feelings signing Abreu gave me this had the exact opposite effect. And I know I'm far from being alone in that regard. Over at SSS most of the over 500 comments on the initial reaction were much the same as mine. What price can you put on dashing hopes of competing ? Again, asking me to predict the future as far as the construction of future rosters is beyond impossible to say. How can I know if that one move not made because of this would've been the best move of Hahn's career or the worst ?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 11:33 AM) So you are saying because they wanted to be more flexible back then, it was dumb. Now, signing Paulie makes them less flexible and that is dumb. We need circus music. If you can't understand then you need to play your own circus music and quit trying to understand the use of a 25 man roster in baseball. Your purposefully turning what I said into something much less. Back then it was dumb. Now it's dumb for the same reason. Doing things that have nothing to do with winning baseball games.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:24 AM) Thome was going to be the starting DH for the White Sox with Kotsay moving to DH. Thome ultimately signed with the Sox most direct rival and had a monstrosity of a season. Konerko was only going to sign with the White Sox. He is going to be a bench player. Those situations are not comparable. I liken this signing to that Kosuke Fukudome. Montrosity of a season ? Is that good or bad . Sounds bad to me . He signed a one-year, $1.5 million deal with the Twins in 2010 in hopes of showing he could still swing the bat. And that's what he did, pounding 25 homers and putting up 59 RBIs in 276 at-bats. .410 OBP. In the meantime the Sox used Kotsay, Andruw Jones , Mark Teahen Omar Vizquel and finally Manny Ramirez instead . The Sox decided they needed to do things their way instead of what turned out to be the best free agent value on the market. Back then the move was made in the name of "flexibility." Results : Twins win division despite losing Morneau for 29 games when Thome replaced him and the Twins went 19-10 . Now they are forfeiting flexibility.Then they realized they needed a LH power hitter and signed Dunn. Downhill since then. I was talking the whole trickle down effect theory how its helped Minnesota and hurt the Sox not comparing anything else. One move begets a move ,which begets a move ,which begets another move. The whole thing has the same stamp on it . We'll do things OUR way forget being smart.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:29 AM) And I agree 100% with that. There you go. That's the whole crux of the matter .We're not lrgitimately trying to win in 2014 after being told repeatedly we were.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:20 AM) Well, he is a guy whose spot might be taken by Konerko. You complain about Konerko coming back. You write off a young, fast, plus defensive player as well. Just shows, no matter what, you would have complained. I write off being forced to accept Leury Garcia because of PK not Leury Garcia.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:16 AM) Paul Konerko is the 25th man. He isn't expected to be a key contributor. He has signed to occassionally DH, and maybe play 1B on occassion. It isn't remotely like passing on Thome. It is passing on a Tyler Greene-type. You don't know what it's passing on ,no one does, but I'd sure like to find out. But you might be right I am placing to much faith in managements ability to make a right decision for the franchise's future.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:13 AM) With the Sox defense last year we need all the defensive replacements we can get- Ok so in a late game situation who do you wanna see replaced? With Leury and/or Danks you clean up 2 positions by putting one of them in CF and moving De Aza to LF where he is better suited. If they carry both Leury and Danks, which is a possibility then you can have Leury at 3B. Who else do you wanna take out? Do you want to see PK get a hit in the late innings or extra innings and watch him try to score the winning run ?- Why can't they just put Danks or Leury in the game to pinch run after Paul gets on? If the game goes into more innings do you want to have his range at 1st base ? Assuming he came in to face a LHP, I'll take that chance all day. Can he play 3rd base or outfield or catcher when one of our bad offensive players gets pinch hit for ? No but Leury Garcia or Jordan Danks can. It's a non story to me. We have the versatility, much like the Indians did last year with players like Aviles and Raburn, to counteract having a player like Pauley(or Giambi in Clevelands case) on the bench. Wonderful Leury Garcia is your answer . Have fun looking up from the bottom again in 2014.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:06 AM) They aren't BSing you. The first baseman in 2014 is a 26 year old Cuban who may be the most prolific hitter in that country's history. Angel Sanchez, Tyler Greene, Koske Fukudome...those are some of the 25th roster spots in the past. Paul Konerko is no worse than those players. Konerko isn't penciled in for 150 starts batting clean up. Fine see ya in the 10th year of the rebuild when we are the Royals and the Pirates. Look at the trickle down effect of not signing Thome for one year. It's been chronicled before. Signing PK is one less move the Sox could've made. How do I know the road not taken could make all the difference ?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:01 AM) This is complaining just to complain. It's the 25th roster spot. The who is all that matters. You want a young guy who misses an opportunity to actually develop into a decent player sitting on the bench instead? What good does that do? Oh for f***s sake if you want to bury your head in the sand go right ahead. Excuse me if I don't like getting bulls***ted by Sox management or wanting a better team as quickly as possible. Just delay the rebuild another year who cares, its Paul Konerko. !

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:46 AM) Who did you have in mind for the 25th roster spot? For all we know, this move prevents the White Sox from using Marcus Semien as a utility infielder because Ventura "likes his hustle" or whatever. Maybe they use it on Brent Morel. What difference does it make in the end? This move is meaningless. Anybody the Sox would have used it on is better off getting regular ABs in AAA or AA. Again I ask, what is the ultimate effect? Whose roster spot is this affecting? The who is not the point and you know it . The point is we've been fed garbage about competting and getting younger ,more versatile , more speed , better D the future and now we're getting older, less versatile , slower, bad D and the past. I have no idea what the butterfly-effect could be on this team ,what one move that might have been made can effect other moves. Asking me to predict the future because of this move is a pretty safe argument on your part and not worthy of you.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:37 AM) And how often do AL teams pinch hit? How many defensive replacements do you need? Leury or Danks can play CF while ADA shifts to LF in late game situations, where else do you need a defensive replacement? Do you want to fill the bench with LH hitters? Danks very well could be on the bench. I just don't think this is anything to be upset about, like another poster said, would you rather have PK or Angel Sanchez/Tyler Greene? How many DH's do you need ? With the Sox defense last year we need all the defensive replacements we can get. Do you want to see PK get a hit in the late innings or extra innings and watch him try to score the winning run ? If the game goes into more innings do you want to have his range at 1st base ? Can he play 3rd base or outfield or catcher when one of our bad offensive players gets pinch hit for ? There's no way you can argue that a team needs more versatility at DH than they do at all the other positions. When you have a team full of offensive and defensive suck yes you need to pinch hit and replace them defensively as much as possible or platoon them in the 1st place . Can PK platoon with anyone but Dunn ? ABreu DH/1st base, Dunn DH /1st Base Konerko DH/1stbase , Viciedo DH/future 1st base . Woo hoo we have a whole team of DH's.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:29 AM) How about meaningless? Because frankly, this year, I could not care less about the Konerko signing. I want to see the organization taking steps forward. What the White Sox look like matters only slightly to me, because they are going to be bad. If they were intending on being good, it's a completely different story. They are paying a debt of gratitude to Konerko for almost 15 years of service with the White Sox. It's a classy move. Yeah that's what I've been hearing this whole off season from the countless ruminations on signing free agents and making trades from all our fans "we want a classy move to hell with getting better or competing."

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:08 AM) DHs don't play defense sir, they aren't technically a position player either, and doesn't adding a platoon player/guy who can come in late against LH pitching make them more diverse? The offseason is far from complete, I don't see how upgrading the DH position isn't something that detours them from the possibility of them competing. Because of PK they will have one less pinch runner, one less defensive replacement , one less LH handed hitter in other words less versatility. You don't strive to have more versatility at DH when you're coming off 99 losses. You strive to updgrade positions. Rationalize it any way you want. This move spells "we are not as embarassed about last year as we previously led you to believe because PK was a big part of that embarrassment." You move to the future by cutting ties with the past not hugging it so you feel all warm and cozy with it.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 08:47 PM) It's ridiculously early, and they've already upgraded 1B and DH(A PK/Dunn platoon is better than just having one or the other). What are they BSing about? SSS says it better than I could . http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/12/5/5176...of-paul-konerko All that lip service BS about wanting to compette and most of all about getting younger and what Hahn said at the trade deadline last year "more diversified offensive attack. We need better defense. We need a more athletic combination of position players on our roster." Does PK bring any of that ?

QUOTE (Hawkfan @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 07:19 PM) Over under on dongs next year? 17 For Konerko ? Gimme some of what you're smoking.

So the Sox say they owe it to Konerko to go out on his own terms. How about they owe it to the fans to stop BSing us. Oh yea we want to compete. Konerko was paid massive amounts of money to play for the Sox. You don't owe him anything. Try owing the fans a winner. The White Sox "family" atmosphere includes guys like Baines, Ventura and Konerko but the fans are not part of the family. Apparently we are the red-headed step child.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 06:07 PM) Hahn's secret plan is to do nothing significant to make PK not want to play with them , then after he annouces his retirement ,Bam !! I feel better now. Paul Konerko will tell the White Sox if he intends to play in 2014 before the Winter Meetings begin December 9th, a source tells Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com (on Twitter). from mlbtraderumors

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 06:09 PM) This. Holy s***, how did we not outbid 3/$21? This makes me angry. Angry hippos are dangerous. Is the picture getting any clearer for you now on the Sox plans this offseason ?

QUOTE (Jillian Michaels' Abs @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 06:01 PM) Seriously folks, let's settle down. On December 9th (or whenever his "I'll let you know" date is), the Sox will re-sign Paul Konerko.... so we've got that going for us. Hahn's secret plan is to do nothing significant to make PK not want to play with them , then after he annouces his retirement ,Bam !! I feel better now.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 05:57 PM) Do the Sox have room in the payroll for Cano? Not a snowball's chance in hell.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 05:41 PM) I'm okay with this. I'm sure Abreu, Sale , Quintana and Avi Garcia will be thrilled also if the Sox sit on their Hahnds .

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 05:41 PM) They'll probably still sign Cano. Too bad luxury tax fines don't get distributed to other teams . Sox might find some money to spend then.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 05:43 PM) Looks like done deal pending physical for Jacoby and Yankees. Also in that trade between the A's and Rangers anther very good defensive CF off the board. According to Fangraphs :And then there’s the defense. Over the last three years, here is the UZR/150 leaderboard for players with at least 1,000 innings in center field. 1. Craig Gentry, +30.4 2. A.J. Pollock, +24.2 3. Lorenzo Cain, +23.2 4. Carlos Gomez, +21.0 5. Peter Bourjos, +14.0

The Yankees are closing in on a seven-year deal with Jacoby Ellsbury, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com. "It could happen," someone familiar with the talks told Heyman. It is believed the deal would top Carl Crawford's $142MM, seven-year deal. from mlbtraderumors

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 05:00 PM) Seriously. If the Sox major league team sucks so badly, why do any other GMs want them? If the Sox minor league system is so bad, who is going to trade major leaguers for them? No one does want them yet . Maybe we can snag another Leury Garcia. Oh joy.