CaliSoxFanViaSWside

I'll just take a wait and see approach on this one. I like that we got a CF but if it turns out he can't play it well, then we have a 4th OF at a corner position with limited power. On the plus side he has the potential to be a .300 hitter and on base machine. Hahn staying on course getting ML ready player and another LH. Eaton needs to produce right away. It's not like he's Avi and 22 yrs. old, he turned 25 4 days ago so wish him a belated happy birthday .He got a new job as starting CF and leadoff hitter for the Sox as a present.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 09:39 PM) Here ya go... http://m.bbref.com/m?p=XXminorsXXplayer.cgiQQid=nieto-001adr It doesn't say but he appears to be catcher seeing as how he has a caught stealing percentage. Like that he's a switch hitter! Seems to be a ton of SH catchers.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 08:26 PM) All defense, no offense players aren't that hard to find. You certainly don't need to use Sale to find them. I want the Sox to get better defensive players too...but not for him. I want to dump Ramirez et al for younger players, even if they can't hit. You only want those type of players up the middle anyway...never at a corner position. They aren't no offense they're average offense in the Majors with plus defense which makes them better than 1/2 the Sox position players already. Getting to average while being younger with pitching and defense is the next logical step in the progression towards good. To me it's better then 6 prospects . all from different levels of the minors, who ,if you're lucky, 2 of them get to average in the Majors in the near future but certainly not all getting good all at the same time which is what it would take to get to good. About a 1% chance of actually happening. But it won't happen any way but it's more about getting a philosophy of progressing towards a better team more than anything.Right now the outfield defense still is bad and we still have about 5 holes to fill to get to good. Also Pollock is a CF and Gregorius is a SS so those are up the middle good defensive players . So it would look like this : SS Gregorius Lf Parra/ Viciedo Cf Pollock Justin Williams 18 y/o A RF Garcia 3B Gillaspie Davidson 22 y/o in AAA 1B Abreu 2B Beckham C Flowers/Phegley DH Dunn/ Konerko/Viciedo Starters Bradley or Corbin Quintana Santiago Johnson Danks Rienzo

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 03:39 PM) If you're trading Sale, you do it for high ceiling players. There's a lot of average stuff in that proposal. If your goal is to improve the minors yes. No team has more than one or two high ceiling guys who are proving their worth in the high minors. That's why trading Sale is so difficult. Hahn doesn't seem to want A ballers and rookie league players when he trades a big gun like Sale. Also again you say average without any valuation to their defense which is way above average . I know it's a hard concept to grasp but the Sox suck real bad. I made the trade very lopsided in the Sox favor that made us everything everyones been saying we need. better D ,more LH, more depth in the minors and improving 3 positions in the majors. AZ would laugh at Hahn saying you only gave up 1 really good piece and you're taking 3 of my starters ,my best pitcher ( or highest ranked minor league pitcher), sticking me with $20M and taking 2 of my top 10 prospects .

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 02:20 PM) Sorry but you're kidding yourself if you think we'd even win 80 games if Pollack and Para are starting in the OF. Defense is important and all, but if your 3 starting OF's are going to hit a combined 30 HR's you might as well just stay home because you have 0% chance to compete in the American League. Pollack and Parra would be stop gaps on a team that has no shot to compete. Why do you keep ignoring the other pieces I included ? Why didn't you answer when your timetable is for when we can win the division ? Pitching and D wins a lot of games if Abreu and Avi Garcia hit. You have to get better at many position. I just got us better at 3 positions , younger , more LH better D and with a cheaper payroll without rolling the dice on too many prospects . Aren't those all thinsg we want ? You're not all of a sudden go from 65 wins to 100.If the Sox are lucky it'll be a steady climb for the next 2 years and then compete in 2016 . Anything before that and you're really kidding yourself and with a bunch of prospects instead of MLers you're looking at even longer when including A ballers and rookie league players. Got to get to 80 wins before we get to 90.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) So instead of a lottery ticket you'd rather have guys who you know are already average? We play in the AL in a stadium where routine flyballs regularly end up in the 2nd row. Light hitting defensive OF's shouldn't be a target unless they are 4th OF's. I'd hope that in 2 or so years the AJ Pollacks and Para's of the world won't be good enough to start on our team. At least that's the hope if you are trading 1 of the 5 best Sp's in baseball to start over and rebuild. Owings, Davidson, Drury, Lamb and Trahan are their 5 best hitting prospects, I'd try to get 3 of them Average hitters still young enough to do better and really good fielders . Do you not value defense at all ? Gregorius , Pollock are good fielders, Parra is one of the best. We get younger, payroll drops, more left handed. 3 starters who are better than what we have already have and 3 ( 2 if we get Corbin instead of Bradley) prospects. Uprgrading 2 OF positions unless you think De Aza and Vicedo ( who I didn't trade ) are better. A SS who is right now better than Alexei younger and cheaper. great D at 3 position, the best pitching prospect in baseball or one of the best LH pitchers in the NL, Az 10th (by some) rated prospect in Williams and 8 th in Davidson. Sorry if I want to get better right away than wait to see who busts and who doesn't with a bunch of under 25 yrs olds who aren't all that impressive to begin with. Davidson I already had in the trade so that one of your 3. I had Gregorius over Ownings at SS because Owings might be a 2nd baseman. the others were in either A or rookie ball last year. When is your timetable for getting good ? Also Williams is higher rated by some than those 3 (Trahan, Drury and Lamb) so I inlcuded 2 high rated prosepcts and Bradley and 3 MLers in Parra, Gregorius and Pollock How is that not good enough compared to you just wanting 3 prospects ?

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 01:19 PM) Why do we want Para and Pollock? What do they really do for us? They are both on the wrong side of 25 and pretty marginal players anyway. Because they are both really good fielders and our outfielders are very bad fielders and Alexei and De Aza are both older then them so the team does get younger and better defensively by a long shot . Do you want bad fielders or 30+ yr olds or Alexei's $10M contract ? I'd rather have established ML players thanlottery picks. I dont see any AZ minor league hitter who looks all that ML ready with high upside. Eaton sure isn't it. So now being over 25 and very good fielders and league average hitters is all of a sudden a bad thing ?

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 12:00 PM) If you can get a package of Bradley, Davidson, Gregorius, Trahan and Eaton for Sale, I think you have to strongly consider it. Since we're talking crazy trades.... I don't even want a lot prospects if Sale goes to AZ you start with Corbin ,Gregorius, Parra, Polllock .They can keep Owings. We can give up Alexei and DeAza Then AZ can throw in Matt Davidson and Justin Williams. So basically... Sale for Corbin . Sale LH ace controlled til 2019 at very reasonable price. Corbin LH same age as Sale already very good but not the great contract Sale has. Alexei for Gregorius. Alexei 32 $10M a yr for next 2 years . Gregorius turning 24 in Feb. LH hitter very good fielder limited hitting skills. De Aza turning 30 in April LH decent power bad fielder bad baserunner for Parra turns 27 in May very good fielder not much power but LH. AJ Pollock OF Matt Davidson and Justin Williams for the great contract Sale has. Pretty lopsided in the Sox favor basically getting their best starting ptcher starting SS and 2 good fielding starting OF's a 3B prospect in Davidson and a low minors OF prospect who has very high upside in Williams . Az would never do it . Maybe Bradley instead of Corbin makes it a little more even but still heavily in our favor.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 8, 2013 -> 05:08 PM) Since Garza doesn't cost a pick we could try to throw some cash at him real quick & pull him off the board while everyone is focusing on Tanaka. That would be ninja.

Hossa scores on rebound of shot by Sharp in a 2 on 1 in 1st shift of 2nd period. Olsen ( speak of the devil) picks out a corner and scores. 3-1 Hawks.

Hawks up 2-0 on Panthers after 1 period. Crawford injured. Ex-Hawks prospect doing pretty good in FL. Hayes with 3 goals 1 assist in 10 games . Olsen 1 goal 3 assists in 4 games.

Maybe Hahn can pull off a prospect for prospect trade like Erik Johnson for a near MLB ready LH hitting prospect then either sign a RH pitcher or hand the 5th spot to Rienzo. Who is worth more right now to other teams Johnson or Santiago ?

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 06:34 PM) That's my guess too. But if there's any player on the market that really fits our long term needs and has a good shot at actually coming close to earning his contract I'd peg Choo at maybe #1. Ellsbury and McCann (and Cano because of those years and dollars) seem like prime candidates not to. A disproportionate amount of Ellsbury's value comes from his speed which you can expect to evaporate over those last years. I think Choo will be a more valuable player over the next 7 years. Any catcher not named A.J. you can expect get dinged up and spend some time on the DL, which McCann is already no stranger to. And what were you going to do, give him a 6th year? Or more $$ than the Yankees? He'll cost a ton but if there's any player I could see us making an under the radar push for, I can't think of anyone who makes more sense. If the Mariners can find $250 million.... The Mariners are one of the most sound teams finacially in MLB . They have no debt and then inked a $2 Billion TV contract . All the big spending teams have massive TV contracts, Dodgers, Yankees, Rangers, Red Sox, Angels . Not sure how long the Sox current TV contract runs, might have a few years left on it but until ours take that big leap into megabucks teritory you won't see the Sox doing anything remotely close to what the M's did. http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2013/4/19/42...ctv-maury-brown This is an article from back in April basically asking now that the M's have this big TV contract will they use the money. Guess we got the answer.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 02:45 PM) Loney hit .299/.348/.430 last year with the Rays in the AL East. He's a lefty bat, plays D at 1B, makes contact (77 K in 549 PA) and he's 30 next year. A 2-3 year stopgap who doesn't cost a draft pick? Nice bridge piece IMO. I mean he adds balance at low cost, not a big name, no draft pick, no need to deal a prospect.... sounds really like the kind of player Hahn seems to be pursuing. I was all for signing Loney before we signed Abreu and took a lot of heat for it. But you just can't carry 4 1st baseman. We've been arguing about the versatility since PK was resigned . You'd have no reserve outfielder or IF who can play mulitple positions. Find someone like Loney who is an OF or IF then great.

Per MLBtraderumors.com McCann, Ellsbury and now Beltran. The Yankees will sacrifice a third-round draft pick as compensation for signing Beltran. New York has now given up its first, second and third round picks in next year's draft (though they'll get two picks after the first round for losing Cano and Curtis Granderson). Red Sox also re-signing Napoli 2/$32M .

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 07:44 PM) Brutally officiated OT. Ducks announcer saying all game Ranta isn't an NHL goalie. Didn't prove them wrong in the shootout.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:04 AM) It pretty much handcuffs what the Sox can do in the rule V draft as they wont be able to use that spot to carry an extra player that could contribute to the roster long term. If there is no one the Sox think could help long term, it makes sense. But this signing does nothing to move the organization forward. Because the Sox roster now stands at 40 because of the acquisition of Bellisario the Sox are no longer eligible to make a pick in the rule 5 draft. They would have to clear another roster spot 1st.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:02 PM) When you're out all night pulling b****es, 10 AM is early. He was probably still out doing his thang at that point when he looks down at his cell phone, half-tuned, and sees it's 10:33 and says "oh s*** (in Spanish)" and gets to the ballpark at 11:52, just in time to get his gear on, scratch his nuts, and take his spot in the bullpen. (keep him away from Starlin) My "flake" reference was more a joke about his (past) cocaine use anyway more than an indictnent of his lateness

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:42 PM) I mean whatever this isn't the NBA. We have 25 players, we can afford for one to be a "flake". Right? Being late a lot doesn't exactly endear yourself to management in any profession. I mean you're staying in the team hotel at least on the road . Maybe have to get to the park by 10 AM for a 1 PM game not real hard to do. Don't think Magic liked that too much.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 05:45 PM) Some insight into why he released http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgersnow/l...y#axzz2mdUBTGu6 Furthermore, Belisario was frequently tardy to the clubhouse on days of games, particularly when the start time was early. http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgersnow/l...y#ixzz2metKkOtD So they're saying he was a"flake".

Mariners offering Cano 10yrs/$230M per MLB Network.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 12:19 PM) I think this will cut into Dunn's time far more than it will Abreu's, but I guess that's just opinion. We'll have to see how that plays out. That makes sense, and I understand it from that aspect. Like I said, I'm not crazy about this move either, but it's small. Like you, I think it stunts the development of some unknown. It's likely that the unknown is someone like Brent Lillibridge or Tyler Greene, but it could also be Carlos Quentin too. It's incredibly frustrating because if the team is serious about winning, they don't go into the season with 3 exclusive 1B/DHs but rather sign or trade for a guy like Craig Gentry (who I seem to remember mashed lefties and was also great defensively; if I'm mistaken, just think lefty masher) who does have added versatility. If they're serious about rebuilding, why are they bringing back a guy who is almost 40? It doesn't make sense other than as a gesture of respect and loyalty, which seems silly. Still, if done right, I don't see it being totally unfeasible that this move actually benefits the Sox and helps them win more games. At this point, in theory, you have a perfect platoon at DH. No, it is not the ideal spot for a platoon, but it will get those two out of the lineups when they should be out of the lineups, so it's not inconceivable that they could ultimately get like 3 WAR out of the DH spot and 8 WAR total between 1B and DH, which would be an incredible improvement. Add an upgrade at 3B and C, even if marginal upgrades, and the Sox almost look like a team that will battle for 2nd or 3rd. Ultimately, I think it's a nil move. I don't think it's going to have much of an effect either way. That's why I really don't care. Right. As a follow up to the Abreu move it was terrible. Instead of constructing a better roster looking for some upgrades like Gentry and Bourjos, both of whom I lamented missing out on in past posts or getting that LH bat or signing Salty or making some move that improves the offense or defense we get an upgrade at DH. DH !, a position that was the least of my concerns when we already have Dunn, Abreu and Viciedo or a myriad of others who can't field the damn ball . Tahnk you for a well thought out response.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 12:14 PM) The trouble with "improving the bench right now" is that it actually doesn't. First of all, aside from Gillaspie, our entire bench is RH. Furthermore, outside of De Aza and Dunn, there aren't lefties in the lineup. In other words, if paul konerko is pinch hitting late in the game...it doesn't improve the matchup unless he pinch hits for Dunn after a lefty is brought in. Furthermore, it was noted to me in the other thread how hesitant the White Sox are to use their backups at the catcher's position when they only have 1 backup. We've all seen this through the years, usually the guy who starts the game finishes the game and only rarely do they sub in. Now, the "one backup" state that we have for catcher is the same situation 5 different positions are in. If its an RBI situation, outside of 1b, 2b and 3b, Konerko pinch hitting leaves no one on the bench capable of playing those positions if an injury happens. If you stick Leury in CF in the 7th inning after Konerko pinch hits and then Viciedo turns an ankle or something like that, we get to see Keppinger in LF. The proper reaction to that would be to be even more hesitant to pinch hit for anyone because there is only 1 backup for the entire OF and SS positions. On top of that...what happens if, for example, Viciedo or Garcia get hit by a ball and need 2-3 days off and legitimately can't go? On those days...there are zero backups on the entire roster. You can't pinch hit for Leury or anyone else because you don't have a single backup for those positions. Basically, they need to cut Keppinger or Dunn to make this work, because otherwise it's a trainwreck, and any team the white sox approach in a trade should knwo that. I really don't think Dick cares ( and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he understands concepts involved in the use of the roster) so your lengthy explanation is a waste. He's just being contrary.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 12:11 PM) I have that same feeling in the back of my mind.....Not sure why upgrading the DH position as opposed to someone like a Angel Sanchez who isn't gonna get a lot of playing time eliminates that feeling. Because despite your arguments that it doesn't hurt the team you know in your heart it was the wrong decision on based on the rebuild/retool that has to be given every consideration.

TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood, And sorry I could not travel both And be one traveler, long I stood And looked down one as far as I could To where it bent in the undergrowth; 5 Then took the other, as just as fair, And having perhaps the better claim, Because it was grassy and wanted wear; Though as for that the passing there Had worn them really about the same, 10 And both that morning equally lay In leaves no step had trodden black. Oh, I kept the first for another day! Yet knowing how way leads on to way, I doubted if I should ever come back. 15 I shall be telling this with a sigh Somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I— I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference. Robert Frost