CaliSoxFanViaSWside

You can use whatever indicator you want. There are an equal amount of times in the World Series you listed where the higher offensive fWAR teams lost as there are times where the team with the higher HR totals lost. 3 each The more pertinent question is how many of the teams in the world series got there by being 14th in the AL or 24th or worse in all of baseball. You listed 14 teams in 7 world Series. Only the outlier KC teams of 2014 and 2015 were able to do that and they had some of the best defense in baseball for those years by far and a stellar bullpen while they played in a much larger ballpark that suited their team better. If you had gone back only as far as 2016 there would be no teams listed who were as low as the Sox are now and the Sox play in a HR friendly park. As far as being unhappy goes by the bolded Going forward I'm sorry if I cannot share Dick Allens view about just being happy with winning after so many losing seasons . All that meant was I won't be happy with winning if it means I should forget about serious runs at a World Series victory. Can you imagine if Rick Hahn said just be happy we are winning now after so many losing seasons without throwing in the competing for multiple championships . I don't think many here would be happy with that statement. Ok just be happy and hold hands and sing Kumbayah because we are winning more than we are losing but don't be expecting any World Series appearances. Maybe that works for you I don't know.

You know me about as well as he does. Rick Hahn is happy over current status of a very injured team and the contributions of bench players and the pitching staff. Rick Hahn if he trades for Escobar and relief pitching is concerned about the playoffs . Is that not possible ? We got a 100 people here saying the team needs help at the deadline. We all have varying degrees of how much help we think we need and in what areas are the biggest needs. Why the Mighty Quin should choose me to tell me I'm unhappy I have no idea. Is it just because I explain in depth why we need help or should I just say Duh yea we need more HR's but I'm good with whatever and avoid his unhappy with me wrath ?

Or as our color analyst on our telecasts says "in our ballpark you usually have to out homer your opposition in order to win."

I'm ecstatic. I probably watch more games than anyone here because of workers comp and no family commitments. But sure you know me so well I'm unhappy. Look you are just using semantics saying the Sox become more than pitching and power with imaginary full season of Robert and Eloy at their peak. That is not what we should be counting on when they return. The point was you need pitching and power to make an impact in the playoffs and the Sox are missing a lot of power . Can they make do staying down at the bottom of the AL in HR's and still make a run through the playoffs ? Sure if you believe in miracles. Sorry I didn't know I wasn't allowed to be happy with the current team but also be concerned about the playoffs .

The teams good 1st half is the result of some of the best starting pitching in baseball, decent though inconsistent relief pitching and from great production from the guys filling in for injured players like Vaughn, Mercedes in April, Engel since coming back from his own lengthy injury problems, Goodwin , Lamb , Leury, and even Sheets and Burger just recently. Vaughn is a starter going forward . The Sox hit 92 HR's in a little over half the season so far. Of those 92, Grandal 14, (currently injured), Mercedes 7 (sent down to the minors). Adam Eaton 5 (released) Lamb 5 (injured). Engel 5, Goodwin 4, Leury Garcia 3, Collins 3 , Sheets 3, Madrigal 2 ( injured out for the season) Mendick 2, Hamilton 2 , Robert 1 ( injured due back in mid August. I count 34 of the 92 HR's from players who are either injured at the moment or have been released or sent down. I count 22 from those usually characterized as substitute players . That makes 56 of our 92 HR hit by either currently injured players, players no longer on the 26 man roster or subs who have had increased playing time due to those injuries. HR production from the subs probably goes down as the injured starters return but the Sox are facing the rest of July with subs and no Grandal and probably at least 2 weeks in August with only Eloy coming back. That means a grand total of 36 HR's from the 4 remaining uninjured regular starters on the team. For reference the leading HR hitter in baseball Is Shohei Ohtani with 33 HR's all by himself. Robert HR production is mystery since he was very valuable hitting over .300 and playing his usual stellar defense in CF while using his great speed on the bases. He has massive power but he is still in on the job training so to speak and what we see from him after he returns is any ones guess. The high side of Robert is off the charts good but when will we see the whole package come together is open for debate.

I think when you are talking about a rental age doesn't matter Gallo is just as likely to get injured next year as Lynn is this year. Was Dunning in the top 100 after being shelved for a while with TJ ? Talking about the QO under the current system might not even matter going forward. Differing on player value can never be resolved until the results are in so we shall see how it turns out.

Per our previous discussions that were quite cordial and I thank you for that, you know I feel the opposite. Playoff pitchers are like any other pitcher except more consistently good. But they do make mistakes and when you have more hitters capable of hitting those mistakes for HR's rather than singles it has a bigger impact on the game because those good pitchers make less mistakes. Look how many HR's Randy Arozarena hit in the playoffs last year. Set a new record if I am remembering correctly.

I think I like this answer the best . HR's are good very good in fact.Going forward I'm sorry if I cannot share Dick Allens view about just being happy with winning after so many losing seasons . That sounds to me like we should all be grateful the Sox finally have a winning team on the field and should not expect to play in the World Series. HR's are what win World Series. When you look at the most replayed moments in World Series or playoffs history what you see is usually big HR's. Of course pitching has just as much to do with winning World Seies but for dramatic instant game winning moments the HR tops everything. Go back to the Sox last World Series and we remember Podsenik, Blum, Konerko, Crede HR's plus dominant starting pitching. When the Sox have just a few more HR's than bottom dwelling NL teams that bat a pitcher and only top the woeful Royals in the AL when the Sox have faced the bottom dwellers of the AL central and Baltimore 7 times yes I think it's a serious problem for a playoff bound team. Moncada has a shoulder issue and still have no idea if Covid has any lingering effect until he doesn't have to play through a shoulder problem. So can't really count on him to step up power production. Grandal's recovery is still questionable until we hear more about his recovery and rehab. Eloy and Robert both are coming off serious injuries and should provide a lift but just how much of a lift is uncertain. Expecting Eloy , Robert and Grandal to pick up where they left off probably isn't a good idea. Vaughn seems likely to produce another 10 HR's conservatively. Abreu's production is down and maybe getting Eloy back helps that but what if this is just Abreu having an off year and starts a decline in his numbers going forward. Basically we are looking at nothing from left handed hitters except maybe a few more from Collins . From the right side it's definitely looking better but not Eloy , Robert and Abreu at past production or top of their game better. That's why I have been stressing the HR power of Escobar and Gallo when talking about trades. A lot to ask I know when we desperately need relief pitching too. Step up the power production and the 2021 Sox start to look more like the pitching and power team that the 2005 White Sox were.

Another good thing about Gallo is that he isn't a liability against LHP . His splits for his career are pretty equal. You can also stick him at cleanup and never have to worry about seeing Goodwin at cleanup ever again. I know he's done very well but can you imagine Goodwin playing a primary role in the World Series a guy who one of the worst teams in baseball released ? He closer to being released again after everyone gets healthy than he is to being used in the playoffs. And this is from the guy (me) who has loved what he has done with the Sox so far.

If you consider the end result of trading Sale was basically Moncada and Kopech. I really don't understand why everyone expects Texas to get so much for 1.4 years of Gallo. I think 1 good pitching prospect a decent secondary piece and a lotto ticket should be good enough of a return to get him. I might be way off on that but Texas was way off on what they expected for Lynn and starting pitching is usually a hotter commodity at the Trade deadline than position players and the Sox still ended up getting Lynn for only 1 prospect in the off season when all teams had plenty of time to make the best offer for him. By the way I also was the one who 1st suggested Dunning for Lynn (well @hi8is says I was ) so it may not mean anything but expecting a little more than Dunning seems about right to me. We might not have a pitching prospect the equal of Dunning but we do have some decent position players in Burger and Sheets to offer some kind of mixed deal.

Gallo has this year and next on his contract so 1.4 years left and if Texas holds onto him right til the deadline it might be 1.3 years. I know Texas is probably asking for a lot for him which is why my position on so many acquisitions is being called going all in. It's my position that Texas is reluctant to move him without getting a very good package. However they held onto Lynn who was basically at the same point in his contract that Lynn was last year and ended up getting Dunning when no one would bite on their asking price for him at last years trade deadline. Gallo has been scorching hot for approximately his last 120 AB's. I cannot find the numbers on those AB's that I did before but they are outrageously good and Tx. would be wise to move him now at his peak. They probably want MLB ready pitching since that was what I read but I think it was speculative rather than fact. However it does make sense that they would like to turn things around asap but it also may require a full rebuild where not quite near MLB pitching might suffice. Unfortunately if they want strictly starting pitching the Sox may fall short in being able to provide that. The Sox won't give up Kopech with Rodon and Lynn becoming FA's next year and Crochet is a big piece of the BP and moving him would require even more BP help this year. So it's really hard to speculate on a package that would be acceptable to the Rangers and beat all other offers. The Sox might be interested in Ian Kennedy also from the Rangers BP. I will be very interested in seeing what they do with Gallo. My fallback options are Schwarber, S. Marte and Bryant all rentals .

Why I want HR's so bad besides the total lack of them in the 1st half against poor competition is that the returning guys are going to be a bit rusty so I don't really like counting on them to be their fully realized selves. Robert only hit 1 before he was injured and his injury was more severe than Eloys. Grandal's injury is still part mystery and he could be out longer than expected. Also Eloy and Robert are RH as is Abreu Vaughn and Anderson if you are counting on them to pick up the HR pace with less than half the schedule left. Mocada's lack of power can probably be traced to shoulder problems so I'm not counting on him hitting any more than he did in the 1st half. So if Grandal is coming back later than our other injured guys and Moncada is just just not hitting them because of playing through injury than there is basically no LH power which is way I prefer the switch hitter Escobar and the LH Gallo and his GG fielding and rocket arm. If Schwarber is healthy his LH power and OBP is also welcome but the glove falls far short of Gallo. Baez and Bryant are fine but both are RH and since we are talking about versatility you also need versatility in the lineup and those 2 would make the Sox far too right handed which is not ideal when you face so many good RHP in the playoffs. I understand you wanting the versatility of Baez and Bryant but it leaves the Sox way too dependent on RH hitting. However I would not sneer at them if that's who the Sox can get the best deals on. With all else equal I would prefer Escobar and Gallo. I also agree that relief pitching should be right at the top as far as acquisitions go and expecting 2 high quality position players along with 2 relievers might be getting a little wild when we have been conditioned to not expecting much.

It should easily unless Texas isn't selling Gallo. It might be the winning package if you ask me. Do you honestly think a team offers 3 solid prospects for 1.4 years of Gallo Look at you and you thought I wanted to go all in. My original suggestion was Burger+ but even I didn't contemplate Crochet as the +. Sox had better resign Lynn or Rodon if they do that plus they have to replace Crochet in the pen . I wanted 2 relievers but that would make 3. Or get them to throw in ancient Ian Kennedy. Maybe Burger, Stievers and Burdi/Lopez/someone from DSL or ACL ? If Padres get involved doubt we could match an offer from them. But Padres could be looking to dump some salary like Myers or Hosmer but hard to imagine Texas would want any of them. But if it's strictly pitching prospects Texas wants SD can probably offer more of that commodity.

I was just thinking about the Sale trade along with the others, Eaton and Quintana. I don't remember how many years each of them had left or the amount of money left on their extended contracts. But when you compare them to what Texas might be asking for 1.4 years of Gallo I just shake my head. I don't really know if Gallo is on the market but Texas would be nuts not to trade him now. If he isn't traded I can only guess he wasn't on the market or they are going to resign him which would be a big mistake. Good luck with your rebuild Texas if you aren't going to trade in your chips and keep expecting a Sale like return for Gallo who is .4 of a season away from being a rental.

Does it really matter? If it's done we will find out when it's announced.

Thanks for everyone for showing up ! You all get likes !

WOW !! Alonso hit a HR on every swing I think in the bonus time and defends his HR Derby crown !

Agreed but Alonso's going to have to earn it. But if he rocks it like he did against Soto he'll win.

Rut roh -Alonso 16-15 Soto and Alonso still had 1:48 to go if he needed it. Mancini is going to have to be Trey magnifique to beat Alonso .

Mancini beats Story . Mancini in finals against either Alonso or Soto .

Shohei loses the shodown with Shoto in double OT ! great match up !

Thanks don't have it. Soto with a 520 footer !

Where can that be found ?

Poor Salvy . Hits the 2nd most HR's so far in the Derby but got matched up against Alonso. 35-27 .