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It is also very odd considering that they continue to do this even after giving away Tatis.

Of course we are all more concerned about the immediate future but that doesn't make the slightly more distant future concerns go away. It just pushes them to the background until the next time the Sox trade IFA money or give away some intl, prospect like Tatis who turns into a stud.

It's not even acceptable then. All the talk about sustained success can never be realized until they start valuing how a 16 yr old can turn into a superstar .

If you combine health issues with just being a bad OF and combine it with how playing the OF would contribute to the back and or foot problem. you are naturally going to be conservative but considering he had the back problems all year I'd imagine it's going to continue to be an issue . Once you have a back problem I'm not sure it ever goes away even if you are fanatical about strengthening your core and stretching. Backs are just tricky that way. Under playing how physically demanding playing any OF position is doesn't help your cause. You do have to dive running at full speed many times or crash into a fall and contort your body in many different ways. You also don't say anything about running the bases or even swinging the bat that all contribute to the physical demands. You get HBP ,you foul balls off your feet, ankles, knees. Plenty of guys get insured that way quite often. This should probably help you realize no NL team would sign him . Sox podcast with Garfien and others but specifically John Tomase of NBC Sports Boston. It also might fire you up as far as his value to the Sox. Of course the Red Sox writer said he didn't think $25M is that much for JDM considering what he provides or specifically what he provided Boston. But he is used to the Red Sox payroll and not the White Sox's. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-talk-podcast-red-sox-writer-thinks-jd-martinez-will-sign-white-sox

Only sense in that a miniscule buyout shouldn't be a concern but turning over money from your IFA pool on a constant basis shouldn't be a concern either ?

Ahh nuts. I misread it at 1st thinking the Sox had got bonus pool money. Typical Sox BS with the IFA bonus pool money. It's funny because I was just looking at the Sox trades and transactions of the last few years and I have made posts in the past regarding their use of that money. Way to use that money to sustain success White Sox. The farm system will surely benefit from always dumping bonus pool money.

He did have back problems all year and if you have ever had a bad back there's no telling what could set it off. He missed time in April and May because of it. Then had back spasms in June from running the bases and if that can happen it also can happen from running in the OF and more so I would imagine on a regular basis This is from an article dated 8/6 2019 : https://www.providencejournal.com/sports/20190806/back-problems-for-jd-martinez-becoming-sore-spot-for-red-sox “I think the only red flag – if you call it that – is J.D.’s back,” Cora said. “You have to be cautious about playing him in the outfield.” Martinez worked as the designated hitter for the 24th time in his last 26 games and the 28th in his last 32. He’s appeared in the field only twice since the All-Star break and might not do so again in the immediate future. This is not the link about the reporter who said he was sore but that is somewhere in either this thread or another one. I can't do all the research for you.

It came from some people quoting how sore JDM was when playing consecutive games in the field and having back problems either because of that or just back problem in general since swinging a bat really isn't great for your back also. There's also an issue with a particular foot problem that the Red Sox saw fit to include in a very unique contract when they signed him.

I think you are on the wrong end of your arguments for an aging big guy like Martinez playing the OF or even 1st base very much. For an NL team to get their money's worth for him he would have to play the field often and he is just not capable of that any more. Pollock had 2 Gold Gloves in his past . Martinez never came close to one, Last year JDM played 38 games in the OF, 2018 57 games. Despite the crowded Dodger OF Pollock played 80 of his 86 total games played in the OF

I have to hand it to the Indians regarding their trades recently. If you want to know want I mean just look at how they acquired Jordan Luplow from the Pirates in November 2018 and Oscar Mercado from the Cardinals in July 2018 with prospect for prospect trades which are pretty rare. Then the blockbuster with the Padres/Reds getting Franmil Reyes trading from a position of depth (starting pitching) for more youngsters. These were victories for their scouting departments and Front Office and taking a page from the Rays handbook of acquiring rising young talent with strong AAA performances who won't hurt you in the field either in the Luplow and Mercado trades. This is the way to improve no matter what your position in the standings.

Don't forget Alex Call for the privilege of paying Alonso $9/10M a year and giving a division rival more payroll space and contributing to the Manny Machado disaster.

You can see it because you don't have a high opinion of the Sox FO ? Is that most of the reason why you think that ? You can't even play the guy against lefties. My opinions of the Sox FO isn't high either but it just seems so obvious it's not a move they should be making. Look at Alonso , Shields, Samardzija. Some of the worst trades in MLB history are usually trading young players for a veteran. The express purpose of the rebuild was to acquire depth in the minors that could furnish the big league club for years to come for sustained success. Is it really the time to abandon that ?

While I strongly believe you are correct about no National league team signing JDM , I strongly disagree that the Sox would trade for a 1 year rental. I just don't see what purpose it serves unless you think the Sox can get to the World Series next year or think they can resign him. I think both are 100-1 long shots and therefore highly unlikely.

Fuck it just sign Strasburg and Rendon and you're at around $130M payroll .Stick Moncada in RF , If that happens I care a lot less about balance in the lineup OBP or LH power. Go with Stras, Gio, Cease, Kopech, and Lopez in the rotation. Stick Collins at DH and find another cheap catcher like Avila or Castro. Save some money for 2021 which is going to be the real contention year anyway. Weather or not this should be in green i have no idea. Every thread it's the same conversations over and over and the season isn't even over yet. I think I've heard everyone's ideas and not a lot is going to change much until a week after the World Series ends when we find out who opts out and to a lesser extent on Dec.2nd when we find out who is non tendered, See y'all in 10 days or so.

I'm more of the mind that you have to trust the guys who are already here or coming next year. If Moncada is a superstar and Eloy is on his way to becoming our own version of JDM who can play LF for a few more years and Robert's ceiling of an elite power hitter and great glove type who might be the best of them all can be realized fairly quickly then that is 3 very strong players you can build around right now. Madrigal also has his place who can contribute by playing good D, making contact What the lineup is missing is still LH power/balance, OBP and a RF. I don't think DH should be a position where a lot of money is spent because with balance and depth and positional versatilty DH can be handled through a rotation. I'd love to see Collins become the LH power OBP guy. It would sure make the chances of a successful rebuild more likely. Also one of Kopech, Cease or Lopez stepping up immediately would be great so there is a certain amount of waiting the Sox have to do since I am also in the don't trade prospects boat or guys like Lopez and Cease just to get a RF. Waiting is also beneficial to the OF prospects though many think we may not see any of them develop into a starting type but as long as they all can field well it's possible the hitting will come. If some were bad fielders I wouldn't be thrilled with them either but many here have given up on them. Putting our hopes into player development is pretty risky too. If the Sox were the ones to hire Chaim Bloom away from the Rays instead of the Red Sox I'd feel a whole lot better . Right now the thing we all expect is the Sox to spend money this off season. On who ,we don't know, How much they spend we don't know. Will it be less this year to spend more next year ? Right now we are all just talking in circles with every thread evolving into everyone's ideas on how the next 2 years should go.

I admire any stance that targets the top guys but you also said our payroll is mid market so in reality how much room does that give the Sox to add top guys . If they do fail to land either Cole or Strasburg who just can't punt and wait. Everyone including Hahn has said the money will be spent and the most likely year to spend it appears to be this year. Another flop year in free agency would be the worst thing possible . There has to be a plan B, C and D in place where not landing the top talent isn't the only path.

Ok so while the rest of us are arguing how to make the Sox competitive with starting pitching we all know the Sox have to sign then debating if JDM etc would be better than Grandal/Moose etc you are arguing to sign the starting pitching and then just give 2020 AB's to Collins Robert Madrigal ? I guess I'm not seeing your plan It appears you want to get the pitching then wait more, or extend Moncada and Gio since waiting does nothing but get the Sox closer to losing Moncada, Giolito and Lopez and makes sustained success appear less likely. When does your window to make the playoffs open and when does it end ? There are tons of other posts you could've taken umbrage with if that is the case like trading assets for 1 year of Pederson or Betts, or putting Lopez in the BP and signing Hamels or the tons of posts thinking JDM is a good signing while you don't know how you feel about him yet quickly point out his flaws. I need to be enlightened to your putting things into context wizardry with numbers.

So by this do I gather that you also don't want JDM along with not wanting Moose? Mentioning Vaughn is hardly worth discussing at this time. He must face the AA gauntlet in Birmingham 1st . There seem to be a lot of people who think if you sign some pitching and JDM the Sox could get in the playoffs next year, While Ithink it's a long shot because I just don't think the young pitching will do well enough; I also think depth was a huge problem and address that need with MM.Hahn has spoke often about the need for positional versatility and LH power so I am just using what he has said as a guide. I also use bWAR because Baseball Ref pops up on my screen when I search a guy by just putting his name into a search engine. If you think fWAR is better because UZR is better than DRS that's your choice but until there's one reliable way to grade players defensively you can argue this all day . I will always lose arguing sabremetrics with you because I see a very useful player and you see his pie chart. Isn't it also fWAR using UZR that has in the past way over rated guys because of defense like Heyward ? My "obsession" with Moose as you call it is realistically trying to plug as many holes and account for injuries which always happens. There's absolutely no reason to call him a DH when the Sox have been pushing Abreu toward DH the last couple years. Moustakas wouldn't b a part time player . It's very easy to see the Sox getting good DH production without JDM between Abreu , Grandal Moose Moncada etc . JDM was signed by Boston with a lot of things to protect them in case he had a re -occurrence of a specific foot injury. Should the Sox sign him without those restrictions should he become available ? If the Sox get him and manage to sign a top pitcher you're cool with losing 2 draft picks and being 1 JDM injury away from losing that big of a bat without any way to replace him ? AT least my way the Sox can cover an injury to various guys without losing too much.

3 WAR at least according to bWAR. Uf you use WAR and mean fWAR please say so. HELLO 35 HR's covers 3 infield positions well therefore not just a DH , actually far from a DH. Quite literally one of the best guys you can have to be a great substitute for an injured Moncada or ABreu or non productive Madrigal . Yea I get it you want to make your point by diminshing his WAR and only calling him a DH . When he would be a huge depth piece while also being a starter. Plus I don't envision him signed in a vacuum. It's imperative to also get Grandal.

1st off what you said was " a Moustaskas" is available every year which I took to mean a player like Moose is available every year. Now what is Moose ? He's a 30 HR guy who bats left handed and plays 2nd, base, 1st base and 3rd base. He was not that until this year , 2019 was the 1st year he played 2nd base in his career therefore you cannot use Moustakas as an example of "a Moustakas" type when he wasn't in the past what he is now. It is you who say a player like him is available every year yet you can't name anyone but him as being like him even though he wasn't even like he was before this year. LOL UGH !! this is giving me a headache !

You literally just did what I said you couldn't do. And the year prior he had a QO offer attached. Also until last year no one had imagined him being able to play 2nd base competently.

Yep the Red Sox got him as opposed to the White Sox . More angst fuel for the fire. That news should be a bigger story for White Sox fans an precisely why many think the rebuild cannot produce sustained success.

I think you are going to have to show me a LH 30 HR guy who can play 3 infield positions is available every year for as cheap as Moustakas is likely to be who didn't have a QO offer attached. I'll be easy on you try showing me for the last 3 years. You can't just make a blanket statement like that without proving it. You also cannot use Moustakas as one of those examples from last year. You also seem to compare him to a 2 WAR guy when he was a 3 WAR guy in 2019.

Doubtful the price tag is as low as you think. Good 2 way, LH hitting , 3 years left and only a year removed from a 4 WAR season doesn't sound that cheap to me.

Great hitters do not cover up much such as the many times I mentioned the other needs the Sox have. If we can sign a top itcher we lose a draft pick . If we sign JDm we likely lose another one. Maybe the Sox can sign JDM, a top pitcher and Grandal . Those 3 are a big chunk of payroll which still only gives the Sox 1 more LH hitter screws with positional versatility and a competent bench . I'd rather not lose too many draft picks since that's the opposite of what a team like TB does. I'd also like some depth on the major league roster in case of injury. Moustakas is a very consistent hitter and can play multiple positions. I'm not all that concerned with his walk rate as I am with his power and ability to be so useful at 4 positions in the lineup. Also remember when dealing with larger contracts such as JDM might require the Sox become highly risk adverse and given the kind of contract that Boston gave him filled with clauses about re-injuring his foot it further limits his market unless a team is willing to give him guaranteed money without restrictions. This would be one time I would agree that he would require restrictions when you also have to consider back problems making it even more unlikely the Sox sign him. Might be an interesting question if given all the information about his current contract and . possible lack of suitors and an attached QO. how many still think he opts out.