CaliSoxFanViaSWside

It was very good of you to take the time to do all that work especially considering you don't think that Bumgarner will consider an AL team.

I have to agree with this. There might be 5% of all Sox fans who know the organization, it's history , it's current history, players, strengths,weaknesses.coaches and minor leagues well enough ,without including any personal biases like age etc. to have a fair, informed opinion. And really not even that well informed because you are not on the inside. All that being said since most fans are ignorant of all these things and you know it why spend time criticizing them and just chalk it up to fans being fans (meatballs) and not even talk about them except to praise them . If you don't have anything nice to say about the fans , say nothing at all. But being that you want to sell tickets you better stick to saying only nice things.

Thanks was just wondering. I have thought that playoff innings are crucial barometers and need to be considered when evaluating and comparing pitchers.

It's a lot easier to say the Nats are better than the Dodgers now that they beat then. I'd think that many prognosticators still picked the Dodger's to represent the NL in the World Series even after the AS break. Vegas probably did too. Maybe upgrading their BP wouldn't have helped them beat the Nats. We will never know but in a short series it often comes down to who is hotter at the moment along with the overall talent level. Kelly sure didn't help in the one area they needed the most help nor did they get anyone who could help. It bit them in the ass just as I thought it would after the trade deadline not after the fact.

Well if a small sample size like that get's you a decent contract more than your body of work especially 2 good years in row then the Dodgers deserved what happened to them which was my point from the beginning.

Hire Torii Hunter to be a video analyst on pitchers tells or keep him in the dugout. Plouffe said him and Molitor were the best at it. Isn't that Thome in a Sox uniform in the background and also some Sox painting? Wonder why the Sox stuff . He was never in our organization as far as I know.

This how I have always looked at it. More talent = better chance to win. Do i think Yo's hitting abilities are tied to the position he plays ? No. Do I want Yo happy ? Yes Do I think Yo will be unhappy about switching positions again ? Maybe, initially, but he'd get over it hitting next to Rendon in the line up. Key question . Will he be able to play OF or 2nd base well enough to also be an asset in the field ? IDK but I sure wouldn't dismiss the idea based on Yo's unhappiness or the ability to extend him. That may happen regardless Conclusion . Winning makes you happy.

FIFY.

So you're telling us this is just about the trades that jump started the rebuild ? Because there doesn't seem to be any disputing that but plenty to dispute in other trades, I mean great, pat the FO on the back all you want for picking some of the top talents from many many lists that tell you the top talent. But try relying on your talent evaluators for Major League talent for trades and it hasn't gone as well. Maybe some Sox scout/evaluator out there was adamant about not trading Tatis but it happened anyway. You read stories about how the scout for Trout was so convinced he was going to be good it may have swayed the Angel's FO to value him higher and they sweated out seeing if anyone else would pick him. Lat time I heard Hahn talk about how convinced a scout was about someone it was Manny Banuelos.

But he did have value enough to sign that $3/25 contract when he had just 1 good year that I don't believe was quite as good as Colome's last 2. I just think Colome's current contract is fair and not a hindrance to his value especially because relievers numbers tend to be volatile and he has been pretty consistently good in spite of peripherals and K rate while closing or as a set up guy.

Did you use post season innings as part of the total of IP or , not use it at all, or use it separately ? Would Lester be the closest comparison as a more recent example than the other 2 ahead of him ?

I'm just wondering if the Sox talked to the Didgers at all about Colome. I know the Dodgers didn't trade for Felipe Vazquez from the Pirates because the Pirates wanted Gavin Lux in return. I wonder if the Sox asking price for Colome also didn't interest them or if they even talked. I've had Fathom tell me Colome makes too much money to have any value and doesn't K guys but Joe Kelly is at 3 years/$25M had a negative WAR and a WHIP close to 1.4 and he's had only 1 good year in the last 4 while Colome had a WHIP close to 1.0 and 4 of last 5 years were good.

I'm glad the Dodgers are out. Despite all their riches and talent they decided that upgrading their BP was too costly. So they used Kershaw in a role for which he not suited and it backfired. This was precisely what I predicted or hoped back at the trade deadline when the Dodgers skimped on RP. Maybe Colome would've been a better choice to pitch than Joe Kelly since Kelly had a shit year.

Outstanding discussion between you two so I'll just throw my 2 cents in here as a Bumgarner supporter from posts I made about him earlier in other threads. I saw Lester on Ray Rays list which is why I am posting. Now I can't remember nor did I look it up but in my earlier posts he seems to be the guy most like Bumgarner. I believe age and postseason IP were extremely similar. I thought all the post season IP were part of the reason why Bum's velocity went down and once he put some distance between those innings his velo would recover which it has, It further encouraged me that Lester was a year older when he signed with the Cubs than Bum would be if he were to sign with the Sox. Now I just hope I am not mis- remembering what my other posts comparing Bum to Lester said or other key points in that comparison. If you could pick a pitcher from Ray's list who do you see as the closest comparison to Bum ? I chose Lester because he was a recent example but I didn't have the benefit of this list mainly because of age, innings pitched ,and post season innings pitched which I'm not sure you guys are using or just adding it to the total innings pitched . In my mind using the Lester comparison was why I originally settled on Bum as the guy I'd want most,

I've heard this plan somewhere before at least with the position players but the plan on the position players was to make sure the Sox have the money for the starting pitching. Not sure with Grandal that would be the case, Once Abreu is signed Sox and all the arbitration raises come in, the Sox are looking at a starting payroll point of around $70M. If we pick $130M as a fair payroll the Sox will spend somewhere in the $60M range. I picked $130M but it could be higher or lower but anything above $150M seems like a reach.

OK so let's assume payroll is $160M and you may be the only one here thinking it can go that high but for arguments sake let's put it at your number.But let's also use the $70M as a starting point. You tell me the yearly salaries for Cole, Grandal ,Wheeler ,a $15M RF,and 2 very good relief pitchers and make that fit $160M . Now if I use the numbers from your posts you think anywhere from $100-125M is available . If we start at $70M and add $100-125M that puts payroll at between $170-$195M not $160 .Now what about extending some of our core ? Adding at the deadline? I understand being an optimist but when I combine all your posts with where payroll is starting from it just doesn't work.

Purely conjecture,

Yes it is about more than cutting salary but I can only tackle one post at a time and if the Sox are resigning Abreu like everyone seems to think I don't understand all the posts about signing whoever we want because we can afford it or trading for or paying for JDM. Abreu takes care of DH and takes up a decent chunk of salary .Any other money goes to starting pitching mostly and whatever they decide is left over or if payroll is higher than expected then I don't know what happens if the other choices are between maybe Ozuna, Puig, Grandal, Moustakas, Holt, Dickerson, bullpen , Gennett or whoever. If the Sox make a trade that would be very interesting to say the least.

So you really think the Sox can afford Cole, JDM , Bumgarner, Ryu, Strasburg, Rendon Grandal, Ozuna, Wheeler, Donaldson, Those are the top 10 approximately. Pick any 5 and I guarantee the Sox can't afford all 5.

We can't put much stock into what beat writers say. Of course it's speculation. No one is divulging 2020 payroll to a beat writer because the Sox themselves might have a number in mind but that can change if the right opportunities come along to higher or yes even lower if they can't sign anyone.

I understand but it's typical of Sox fans to undervalue our own. Like sure use the peripherals to say he's not worth anything but then say he was lucky on his BABIP. Frankly I don't see how his BABIP is considered lucky if he is giving up mostly grounders that get swallowed up by the infield defense especially with Timmy having so many errors. Now if you can say he was lucky because... whatever ... hard hit ball rate , too many fly balls etc. but just don't give me half the story. There are plenty of stats to use out there.

Maybe, yet despite peripherals he's had plenty of good seasons and when your WHIP is close to 1 the peripherals probably mean less.

Yes any ONE we want but we don't need any ONE we need 5 guys easy and for 5 good players that will raise up the payroll in a hurry. There needs to be money saved somewhere and maybe not just Yolmer . But that will all unfold as the off season progresses depending on who the Sox actually do sign .

Respectfully disagree. Surely some teams need a guy who has been pretty reliable for the last 2 years and 4 of the last 5. That's damn good for a relief pitcher. It's not like !10M is all that much. Usually winning in the playoffs come down to who has the stronger pen. We are probably going to hear about teams that did not strengthen their pens when they lose in the playoffs this year. Remember plenty of guys were available , maybe even Colome, but only the Braves and Nationals really upgraded their pens significantly. This is why I am rooting for them. At the time of the deadline I remember saying the Dodgers showed no sense of urgency about upgrading their pen and was hoping it would cost them dearly. I'm not saying Colome alone would get it done but I'm pretty sick of hearing how guys like him have no value. If teams aren't willng to pay the price that it takes to improve their odds of winning it all then I hope those teams lose.

I care that he is a Cub. We fleeced them for Q .I don't particularly want to give them a chance to even the score since we compete in the same market. It's best they continue trending down while the Sox trend up.