BlackBetsy

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 07:10 PM) What happened is things cost $1 and KW only has $.50. So classic. So f'ing classic. Well done, sir.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 04:36 PM) Fukodome is the best option left. He wants a 3 year deal. He is a high OBP line drive type guy. And he doesnt cost you anything in the draft. So you can get talent for money only, and still work to rebuild the mess we call our minor leagues. Definitely. The Sox don't have to give up draft picks for Rowand, IIRC, since they were in the top 15 of the draft. But Fuku is the best bet since he is an OBP machine, unlike Rowand circa 2003, 2005, and 2006. If Fuku puts up .300/.400/.400, I'd be ecstatic if he plays a creditable center field. If he puts up .300/.400/.450, I'd be thrilled.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 03:30 PM) LOL. We don't necessarily need someone speedy enough to steal a bunch of bases at leadoff, just someone who could hit, but someone who could run some. Thome... lol. Of course... I realize you are kidding. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Thome leading off. He gets on base more than anyone else, and getting on base is the most critical component of scoring runs. The Red Sox didn't steal many bases in 2004 or 2007 and they won it all. They sure as hell got on base a lot.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 01:04 PM) It was 03 and the number was 5%. OK. Was there a 7% number that was meaningful? Like if it was 5-7%, one thing would happen, over 7%, another thing would happen? When you are as old as me, '03, '04, '05 all run into each other.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:17 PM) I don't know what KW's personal thoughts on steroid use are -- I don't know what Sabean thinks, what Shapiro thinks, what Bowden thinks, etc. etc. but I would bet money that the vast majority of managers, owners and general managers know that many, if not most of the players are juicing and don't care so long as they don't get caught and embarrass the franchise. Actually, KW is very sensitive to steroid usage. Also note that the White Sox were actually going to refuse the steroid tests AS A TEAM in '05 (or maybe '04) with the intent of driving the "positives" higher (a refused test counts as a positive) so that testing would become mandatory. (The labor agreement at the time called for initial testing to determine whether more than 7% of MLB'ers were on the s***. If more than 7% tested positive, testing would be put into place. Obviously, the number beat 7%).

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:09 PM) Matthews = HGH made. Is Rowand? I don't think so. He may have just been a late bloomer with his hitting. Hell if I know. I guess we will see this year. I am not saying Matthews was a bad signing. He has value. He is not worth 10 million per as a LFer though. Now that is overpaying. .252 18 HRs, 78 RBI, and 18 SBs with gold glove caliber CF play is probably worth 10 mil. Put him in LF and he is no longer worth that. Is .285 avg, .330 OBP, 15 HRs, 70 RBI, 10 SBs with gold glove caliber CF play worth 13.7 millon? I guess you can make an argument that it is given the going rate of CFers. I have no evidence of anything, buy my gut tells me that if anyone on the 2005 Sox was on "the s***" as we called it in college, it would be Rowand. Bicepts, Triceps out of line with the rest of his body, a little intense. But that's about all; more of a stereotype than anything. If Rowand comes out to be in the Mitchell report, and KW has signed him, I really and truly believe that will break KW's heart. He really believes in "his" guys, perhaps to a fault.

QUOTE(Soxfest @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:28 AM) No way I pay Rowand 4/55 do not overpay just to do something at this point! The problem is that you assume that if the Sox don't pay Rowand the $13.5 million, they are going to be able to spend it elsewhere. Sure, I'd prefer they buy Fukudome over Rowand, but assuming that's not possible anymore (if Fuku is really down to the Royals(!!) and Cubs), it's not my money, and Rowand is surely better than Jerry Owens. And the Sox won't be giving up anything to get him (see my prior "no trades" post).

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:35 AM) According to Bruce Levine, this is the most recent update regarding the Sox and Rowand. Also, the Sox are still interested in DeJesus. With Miggy to the Tigers, the Sox need The Jesus to win the division next year; DeJesus won't get them there.

QUOTE(joeynach @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 04:22 AM) The point now is that with all of us recognizing the fact that the plan has basically failed and any attempt to replace the "impact" players with lesser free agents or trades will only piss us off. The article quotes KW in saying, "Asked if it was time to regroup, Williams said: ''No, we have to try to be the best team we can be." Which basically tells us all right there KW will continue to try and add these lesser players on cue with the "plan". On the other hand, we are saying forget it, its not worth it given what has just transpired, play the damn kids. I think this is the real turning point. It would have been nice for KW to say we're going to re-evaluate our position and consider a deviation from the original "plan". Even if it involved trading some of the vets already onboard (dye, buehrle, Konerko, AJ) and trying to get some young talent. Moreover it seems that KW (with an already approved payroll increase) just wants to keep to the gameplan (ala lovie smith) and continue to bring in now what we would call "non impact" type players. Stubborn? Yes! Foolish? You put forward a coherent and believable theory. Whether it's true, I don't know. I just hope that the Sox put the money they set aside for Hunter into Fukudome. I honestly think a lineup of Fukudome / Cabrera / Thome / Konerko / Dye / Quentin / Pierzynski / Fields / Richar has amazing potential (My guess is 900 runs, if Fields and Richar live up to their projections). I think the biggest story for the Sox in the early season will be trying to figure out who the #4 and #5 starters. I fully expect that Broadway, Gonzalez, Danks, Floyd and Egbert - if they are still around - will ALL have 2 starts by the end of July. My gut tells me that the winners of that race will be Gio and Floyd, with Egbert coming in third place, Broadway fourth and Danks fifth.

QUOTE(vandy125 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:28 PM) Cabrera and Willis to DET for OF Maybin, Andrew Miller, C Mike Rabelo, and 3 other minor leaguers It's actually a little lighter than I would expect. Miller, despite all the hype, has had all of ONE very good stop in the minor leagues and was not impressive in 64 MLB innings last year. Maybin is the star of this deal, but even he is more of a prospect than anything. If I'm the Tigers, I would have preferred Fields / Gonzalez / Floyd for Cabrera over this deal.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:07 AM) The Sox already have signed 14 players at $99.975 million, according to the Chicago Tribune. I'm sure we can add 6 or 7 players on to those 14 players, and we'd be at 21 players for about $101 million, but signing a Aaron Rowand or some other trade, how high can we expect the Sox to increase the payroll ? Also, keeping in mind that they were offering $15 million a season to T.Hunter as well and, as of yet, haven't spent that money. A little less than $8 million of Thome's salary is being paid by the Phillies, FYI, so the total committed is about $91 million. Typically those stories don't take into account the deals with other teams. By the seat of my pants, here are the deals (roughly, some deals may be slightly bigger as they scale up over contracts): (1) Buehrle - $14 million (2) Konerko - $12 million ($26 million running total) (3) Dye - $11 million ($37mm) (4) Thome - $14.83 million, $7.66 million paid by Phillies, net $7.16 million ($44.1mm) (5) Vazquez - $11.5 million ($55.6mm) (6) Linebrink - $4.75 million ($60.4mm) (7) Uribe - $4.5 million ($64.9mm) (8) Pierzynski - $5.85 million ($70.8mm) (9) Contreras - $10 million ($80.8mm) (10) Thornton - $1.1 million ($81.9mm) (11) Hall - $1.8 million ($83.7mm) (12) McDougal - $2.15 million ($85.8mm) (13) Ozuna - $1.05 million ($86.9 mm) (14) Cabrera - $9 million, $1.5 million paid by LAAofA, net $7.5 million ($94.4 million) So I get a net of $94.4. So clearly, some of the face value of the contracts are different than the average annual values I use in some instances. On the expected 25 man roster, there are a number of players under club control / subject to arbitration: Joe Crede (est. - $6 mm in arbitration) Josh Fields - club control ($0.5 mm) Danny Richar - club control ($0.5 mm) Bobby Jenks - club control (?? is he a super 2?) ($0.5 mm if under club control) Jerry Owens - club control ($0.5 mm) Boone Logan - club control ($0.5 mm) John Danks - club control ($0.5 mm) Gavin Floyd - club control ($0.5 mm) Lance Broadway (I'm filling in the pen here, nothing more) - club control ($0.5 mm) Ehren Wasserman - club control ($0.5 mm) Charlie Haeger - club control ($0.5 mm) Get rid of $2 million of Uribe's $4.5 million (I'm assuming the Sox eat some salary in any trade) and you are down to $92.4 million. If the payroll really could rise to $110 million, that would give the Sox $18 million to spend. Could be shabbier. Give me Fukudome at $12 million per year and let me spend $6 million for a one season deal with Fat Bart, we may be talking here.

Has anyone figured out why you don't throw Heath Phillips into the deal and get a low-A prospect back? Or did the D-Backs not even want him (seems like a serviceable lefty out of the pen, especially in the NL).

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 11:10 AM) I don't know why you guys are so negative ? All the Sox have to do is trade: Fields, Gio, and DLS to Minny for Santana then, Fields, Gio and DLS to Fla. for Cabrera then, Fields, Gio and DLS to Cle. for Sizemore. No FA's. Problem solved. The sad part of this joke is that Fields, Gio and DLS wouldn't get any of those three guys. And they are the Sox's 1,2 and 3 prospects (with Carter 4).

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 02:47 PM) Ya, that Hanley Ramirez jabroni is bad. Gammons is now 1 for what? Craig Hansen was supposed to be the second coming.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Dec 1, 2007 -> 12:49 PM) I also agree with the other poster who said why not drop Andy Gonzalez who appears clearly overmatched at the major league level, and put this guy on the 40 instead. No one knows if Hernandez can survive at the MLB level or not but he's had minor league success. Which is, of course, something that Andy Gonzalez hasn't had... 716 OPS in 2300 MiLB at bats. (Happily, though, AGon actually takes a walk).

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 05:09 PM) Seaver wasn't a free agent. He was a compensation pick for a lost free agent. Floyd Bannister was a top guy they did get, but you are right, its been a long time since they have signed one of the top guys. Wow...that's right about Seaver. I forgot the specifics of it (I thought he was mistakenly left off something to become a free agent...but, wow, totally weird occurrence). But swap out Bannister with Seaver (Bannister was a very high profile free agent when the Sox signed him) and the list stays at three.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 04:09 PM) I agree, and the free agent splash is something that Kenny Williams apparently cannot get done. We are a .500 team in a division where any of the teams can finish above .500 or well above next season. It's not just Kenny Williams' problem. The Sox have signed three significant free agents during the entirety of the modern free agency period: (1) Carlton Fisk (2) Tom Seaver (3) Albert Belle All of the other free agents have been second tier / Type B guys like Jermaine Dye, Jaime Navarro, Tadahito Iguchi, Bo Jackson, Danny Tartabull, Julio Franco...etc. And, actually, the Sox have done pretty well with those second tier guys. The problem is that the second tier is so bad right now, that a Type A guy is going to have to be the priority. Fukudome, Fukudome, Fukudome.

I've seen a number of posts on Soxtalk.com as well as a number of newspaper articles noting the Sox's intent to improve through trades...including through trading for Miguel Cabrera, Coco Crisp, Jason Bay, whoever. The idea of improving the Sox short term through trades (unless they are absurdly one sided) is dumb. D-U-M-B. Right now, the Sox are an old team with a poor farm system. At most, the Sox have two major-league ready pitchers without MLB service time (Gio Gonzalez, Jack Egbert) and not a single major-league ready position player without service time. The young position players the Sox do have - Richar, Fields, Sweeney, Owens - each have severe questions about their ability to be major league regulars at their positions (with Fields having mostly fielding questions, although his ability to hit for average is in question). The farm system, for all intents and purposes, is bare. So to improve through trades, the Sox would need to give up what young talent they have. Fields is the only position prospect with any appreciable trade value. Gonzalez, Egbert, Danks, Floyd, Broadway and Oneli Perez have some value on the pitching side (probably in declining order of the way I have listed them). But with Garland traded away and Contreras perhaps on his last legs.....the Sox absolutely need to keep 4 quality starting pitching prospects for 2-3 spots and hope they work out. For the Sox to compete over the next 3-5 years as the farm system is (hopefully) replenished, they can only improve via free agency. Otherwise, trades of youth for veteran players will leave the Sox with two choices in 2010/2011: go to a Red Sox-sized payroll to be competitive, or engage in a total rebuilding process that will leave the Sox as a 90-95 loss team for 4-5 years. So the Sox would be much better off both now and in the future at spending free agent dollars now on Fukudome (my first choice) and Rowand, etc. and not giving up any talent. That's not always true, as teams are sometimes much better trading than signing free agents, especially if they have a surplus of young talent. For the Sox, I think free agency is the ONLY realistic option.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 2, 2007 -> 02:03 PM) Ellsbury might be the most overrated prospect/player in the history of baseball. ...since the last Red Sox prospect Gammons has overhyped to push the market value up for his team.

From Jayson Stark: "Meanwhile, a hitter in Venezuela who has popped a few eyeballs is Jody Gerut, who is trying to prove he's over his knee issues. Well, here's a good way to prove that: bat .390, with a .488 on-base percentage. Which what Gerut is doing. "He's raking," said the same scout. "He should wind up in somebody's camp." " I might take a low-cost flier on Gerut for some left handed hitting from LF. He actually has a semblance of plate discipline, although where did his power go?

Maybe private phone messages between social acquaintances should remain private.

You lost me at Mariotti.

1901-1902 - Sam Mertes - 5 HR 1903-1912 - Danny Green - 6 HR 1913-1919 - Ping Bodie - 8 HR 1920-1929 - Happy Felsh - 14 HR 1930-1933 - Carl Reynolds 22 HR 1934-1949 - Zeke Bonura 27 HR (Joe Kuhel tied record in 1940) 1950-1969 - Gus Zernial - 29 HR (Eddie Robinson tied record in 1951) 1970-1971 - Bill Melton - 33 HR (Melton tied own record in 1971) 1972-1992 - Dick Allen - 37 HR (Fisk tied record in 1985) 1993-1997 - Frank Thomas - 41 HR 1998-present - Albert Belle - 49 HR Dick Allen kept the White Sox record for the longest period - 20 years. Gus Zernial had the record for 19 years.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 12:49 PM) From the take it for what it's worth file, George Offman on the Score commented the Rays do have some interest in Uribe. That's all he said. And people wonder why the Rays finish in last place every year.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 04:09 PM) Uribe will be given away. If the Sox get someone to take him and pay, say, $2 million of his salary, a good return would be someone like Jeff Barry. Or Jeff Berry. Who cares.