BlackBetsy

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 12:18 PM) I think Broadway is the leading candidate to be the long man out of the bullpen. I'll be surprised if Masset joins the big league squad again. I was just thinking I like Broadway for that role. Throws strikes (mostly), has decent enough stuff. If he develops into a back end of the rotation starter, it will come out of his long man experience in the bigs. IMHO, the Sox don't give their prospects enough chances to succeed, such as by being a long man. Low pressure appearances to learn how to get guys out.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 02:54 PM) Uribe's career OPS is only two points lower than OCab's.................. Yes, but Uribe's OPS is weighted towards SLG, which is less valuable than OBP, and Uribe's SLG itself is inflated by the Cell.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 02:28 PM) Details...but I thought... JG: $12 mil OC: $9 mil - $2 mil = $7 mil = $5 mil saved No? I'm not counting on $2 mil, either. I saw that Cabrera's deal was 4 years $32 million (8 per year). I take it that it was scaled up in the last year? My bad.

Salary dump. I'm guessing they got at least $2 million in the deal, meaning that the Sox saved $6 million in the swap. Whether that goes to other players or just to the raises due to Buehrle and Dye, I don't know. My guess is that it goes to the raises due to Buehrle and Dye. The Uribe re-signing is a real head scratcher at this point. P.S. I like Cabrera for something like .280/.330/.400 with the Sox. Better than Uribe offensively, but no great shakes. I don't like what they will be replacing Garland with in the rotation.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Nov 16, 2007 -> 12:10 PM) Thanks for the info. It certainly appears that there is no reason whatsoever to believe that the Sox may sign a borass free agent such as Andruw Jones etc. It really began when the White Sox drafted Bobby Seay in 1996. Boras used a loophole in the CBA to finagle free agency for Seay (Boras made huge $$ demands, and the Sox never tendered him a contract because of Boras's statements. But because the rules say that a draftee who is not tendered a contract by a certain date becomes a free agent, Seay became a free agent as a result of Boras's ruse). The Sox also drafted Jeff Weaver in the 2nd round in 1997, but he also refused to sign with the Sox and went back into the draft, where he went 14th overall to the Tigers in 1998. I think that he went back to college for another year (Boras invented this particular form of leverage). That was pretty much how the Boras/White Sox bad blood was born. In the A-Rod sweepstakes of 2000/01, Reinsdorf wanted to meet personally with A-Rod. Rumor has it that the Sox were ready to offer him a huge deal - $20 million per year (obviously not as huge as the one Hicks offered). Boras never allowed it and it went nowhere. I believe the public position at that point was that JR wanted to meet the guy he was putting such a big investment into to size him up, but it seems likely that he also was still pissed at Boras. I remember being excited about the prospect of ARod coming to the Sox because they were just coming off of the 2000 season and, quite frankly, the 2001 team with A-Rod would have been gangbusters.

Jim Abbott was also apparently a Boras client, but he did sign with the White Sox. Oddly, he signed with them twice, on April 8, 1995, before the Sox drafted Bobby Seay and the Boras troubles started. Jim pitched pretty well for the Sox in 1995 (6-4 with a 3.36 ERA in 17 starts) and got flipped for McKay Christenson (remember him?), Bill Simas (BALK!!!), Jon Snyder (ace for a month), and Tim Fortugno. Baseball Reference says his contract was for $2.775 million that year...so pre-Bobby Seay, I'd say this is the most significant Boras client signing. Abbott re-signed with the Sox in 1998 in late May after being out of baseball in 1997. He had to pitch in the minors before a late season call up. He made 5 starts, WON ALL FIVE OF THEM (!!), and had a league-average ERA in doing so. It's funny, I don't recall that stint with the Sox at all, but in late 1998 I was traveling in Europe. So Jim Abbott - who was basically signed off the scrap heap in 1995 and 1998 - is the only Boras client that I can find whom the Sox signed as a free agent.

It's a good question. I believe the problems with the White Sox arose from his representation of Jeff Weaver and Bobby Seay. Here's a Boras client list. I can't see a single one that the Sox signed as a free agent. They obviously acquired Schoeneweis and Danks from other teams. I wonder if Jordan Danks is also a Boras client... That's got to get in the way of KW's love for him. I wonder if Crede was a Boras client when he signed. He was a 5th rounder, so it's not like he would have been able to get a huge bonus out of the Sox, but he could have gone to college instead of signing. Anyone know when Crede picked up Boras?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 15, 2007 -> 06:55 PM) He's opted back in. Yup. Deal apparently agreed to: $275 million over 10 years. Nice.

QUOTE(Steff @ Nov 15, 2007 -> 01:55 PM) I don't care one way or the other about Stone (as I rarely listen to the broadcasts) but I do feel it's important to again point out that the Sox do NOT employ the radio personalities. That needs to be kept in mind when folks want to comment on the Sox being solely to blame for who is or is not calling the games. Are you suggesting that the Sox do not have veto authority over who the broadcasters are, even if the Sox do not pay them?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 14, 2007 -> 04:07 PM) So one of two things is happening here, either ARod really never wanted to leave the Yankees and thought they were bluffing when they said they wouldn't offer him a contract after he opted out, or two, no one is even in the ballpark of $$$ Borass is looking for, so they are putting BS rumors out there to try to fluff up money for ARod. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/base...z.ap/index.html What do you think is more likely? I say #2 is a lock at this point. I'm not sure that anyone else would have been willing to give him $25 million per year. I think the Yankees could offer 8 years / $208 million and be the #1 bidder. If you think about it, and the Yankees really offered him an 8 year extension at $230 million, plus the 3 years $81 million he was yet to receive, his total package would have been 11 years $311 million. Now his total deal is going to be 10 years $275 million, meaning that he's given up 1 year on the deal and $36 million. That's a pretty good move for him. The Yankees, who would have gotten $21 million from the Rangers, are actually still $15 million better off in this deal, and have a shorter commitment to him. I've heard the incentives could take the deal to $295 million, but my guess is that they are largely face-saving and likely will not be achieved in the out-years. My guess is that this will be a bad deal for the Yankees in at least the last two years, if not the last three. A-Rod will still be a decent player, but he won't be driving championships for the Yankees A-Rod's best comparable is Ken Griffey Jr. After a 50-hr-per-year late 20's, early 30's peak, Griffey has declined to be a 30-40 HR guy. My guess for this contract for A-Rod: 2008: .300 avg. 48 HR 130 RBI (.300/.390/.620) 2009: .300 avg. 50 HR 140 RBI (.300/.400/.630) 2010: .290 avg. 42 HR 125 RBI (.290/.390/.590) 2011: .290 avg. 38 HR 115 RBI (.290/.390/.580) 2012: .310 avg. 45 HR 130 RBI (.310/.410/.620) (his last great year) 2013: .290 avg. 22 HR 70 RBI (.290/.400/.580) (assuming at least one injury season cuts games by 50-60) 2014: .280 avg. 30 HR 100 RBI (.280/.370/.500) 2015: .260 avg. 38 HR 105 RBI (.260/.360/.520) (assuming he starts focusing on power vs. average, a la Frank Thomas) 2016: .245 avg. 32 HR 85 RBI (.245/.355/.480) 2017: .260 avg. 24 HR 90 RBI (.260/.370/.500) That would give him about 365 more home runs, to finish his career with 880 homers. He'd pass Bonds somewhere around 2012-14, depending on when Bonds gives it up. If Bonds plays two more years, he'll make it to 800.

QUOTE(kane0730 @ Nov 15, 2007 -> 10:02 AM) Wow. What a terrible contract for Texas. Gee, where have the Rangers made bad deals before. The Rangers will be regretting the last two years of that deal, at least. I probably would give Hunter 4/60, or maybe even 5/75 if I could buy out that last year for $4 million (and I would most likely buy it out making it a functional 4/64 deal), but 6 years $90 million is really really bad. They are apparently dead set on !^ing away the A-Rod money they just got back. I'd be more willing to give Rowand 6 years $90 million than Hunter. Rowand's more likely to still be able to play CF at the end of the deal. That said, I'd prefer to give Rowand something like 4 years $52 million (the Johnny Damon deal) and let him be a free agent again after his age 33 season.

What did he say specifically about Egbert and Gonzalez?

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 12:13 PM) Soriano. Latin American players try and lie about their age quite often. Beltre and Furcal as two examples. I believe Soriano's listed age at this point. He was already busted for lying about his age and his current age is where he was re-set. BTW, Soriano has one of the most electric swings I've seen. He swings harder and faster than I thought was possible, generating enormous power. Truly one of the most amazing things I've seen. I think Soriano will be playing a la Julio Franco into his late 40's - especially if he can improve his batting eye.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 11, 2007 -> 08:52 PM) Pavano has exactly one season with over 100 innings of 100+ ERA+ on his resume... He wasn't any good to begin with. He got $40M for his 1 above average season. Pass. All depends on price. If he comes in for a Loaiza-type deal, fine. But I agree counting on him in any meaningful respect seems silly. One thought- could he be kept healthy in the bullpen?

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Nov 10, 2007 -> 08:03 PM) I disagree with part of his rankings. One, Carter should be a four-star prospect. He has been young for every level at his age, has tremendous power (star-level power) and a solid eye at the plate. Not to mention, he can be a pretty good first baseman defensively. I think Carter is underrated. I would also bump Eggy to a three-star, though he does have the best stuff, some guys just know how to get it done and he does. That should at least count for something. I have to think with Carter, it's a positional thing. His production is very good, but he's at an offensive position. Have to agree on Eggie. I just think he's got a good instinct for pitching and a good enough sinker to get by as a 4th starter / 8th inning guy. The Southern League is full of prospects, and I don't care how good of a pitcher's park Birmingham is, he still struck out enough guys where you have to think his stuff has something.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 02:22 PM) Two words. Scott.Boras. Ring ding ding ding ding ding. Hot Dog, we have a weiner!

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 12:28 PM) If the option is between the White Sox's leftovers and having Cabrera walk in a year for 2 draft picks after costing you an additional $12 million you can't afford, don't you take the leftovers as opposed to starving? Honestly, I wouldn't think it's totally out of the question either. Look at the lack of deals the last few years at the trading deadline. This year we had Tex moving and that was it. Teams just aren't willing to trade anything resembling a prospect for an established guy because of the rapidly growing money difference. It's gotten incredibly extreme. It's actually possible that this is where the value in the market lies right now; trading a few prospects for veterans, because that's what no one else is doing. I mean, that's a good analysis only if the Sox are the only team in the market for Cabrera. Sure, the White Sox leftovers are better than the 2 draft picks that you have to pay that money too. But as soon as another team is willing to pay more than that, it's irrelevant. It's a bidding situation, which will drive up Cabrera's trade value. Making a better trade offer is what got the Sox Freddy Garcia. Brian Cashman at the time was quoted as saying that he simply couldn't compete with the Sox's offer of giving up Jeremy Reed (who hit .400 in Birmingham in '03), Miguel Olivo (lefty crushing catcher with great arm), and Mike Morse (big, projectable SS/3b).

The problem with the rebuilding scenario is that I simply don't trust this organization's ability to assess minor leaguers, especially those in other organizations. I think they would overpay for premium prospects and the team would be better off with their established players. First and foremost, this organization needs to get better at drafting and evaluating amateur and minor league talent. Period. Everything else is just putting fancy finishes on a crappy foundation. (Unless the Sox are going to become the Yankees and spend $250 million a year out of their player evaluation problems. Start holding your breath for that, folks). The other issue is that the 2007 offensive performance was as much of a mirage as the 2006 offensive performance. The Sox were an extremely poor (relative to the league) offensive team in 2007 after being a very very good offensive team in 2006. But if KW thinks that the baseline for the Thome-Konerko-Dye offense is 2006, he's way off. Two of those three players (Konerko, Dye) had their best years from an OPS standpoint and one shouldn't expect 2006 to be repeated. Even with a bounceback from Dye and Konerko to 2005-level production, this may top out as a 83 win team, which, for all intents and purposes, is a wasted year from an organizational standpoint. Unless there are MAJOR upgrades to CF, LF, SS, and 2B, as well as the bullpen, this team is NOT going to win the 90+ games necessary to make it to the playoffs. Adding Torii Hunter to this team won't make the difference, especially if Garland is swapped for Gavin Floyd in the rotation.

Food for thought: Per Ken Rosenthal, the Nationals are shopping Ryan Church, a righty-killing OF who plays CF in a pinch and thus would be a very solid defensive LF'er. The Nats are looking for young rotation fillers, and I think a Gavin Floyd for Church deal is a good one if Bowden will take it. I'd throw in an A-level prospect to sweeten the deal. You'd need to platoon Church with a righty hitter, as he looks downright silly against lefties with breaking pitches.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 11:35 AM) Also keep in mind the division in which he was putting up those numbers, the worst in the game. His last 2 years in the American league were less than impressive and a .350 OBP only means so much when you can't do ANYTHING else. He doesn't even steal bases. If the Sox do sign Eckstein they better have a good backup plan because he's starting to hit the DL for large chunks of games at a time. He missed about 40 games in '06 and about 2 full months last year. Watching Andy Gonzalez man SS for all of June and July is going to be unbearable. Those are 100% my main two concerns. I do think that it is getting silly how much better the AL is than the NL. The gulf is as wide as it's ever been in MLB. (and probably in the NFL with AFC vs. NFC as well).

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Nov 6, 2007 -> 05:22 PM) Will you ever look past batting average? Eckstein sucks and will be a rip off. .363 /.350 /.356 OBP in the last 3 years. OBP is a more important skill than AVG. The Sox can afford his low SLG if he gets on base enough for the boppers. A .350 OBP isn't the be-all, end-all of OBP, but it's a lot better than that put up by Owens/Podsednik/Erstad last year. And his SLG isn't that lower than Uribe's slugging, even with Uribe's 20 dingers. The question is whether he can play 150 games per season and whether he will decline over the next 2-3 years the Sox sign him for. He's a rip off at $15 million per year, but he's pretty good at $6-7 million.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Oct 31, 2007 -> 10:08 AM) I wouldn't take Damon for a box of baseballs - not if you have to pay him $ 13 mil. a year ! Are you kidding ? He's not even worth half that anymore. Sure, the Yankees want to move him- guess why ? Forget Damon. The Sox have Owens. One would think any deal would involve the Yankees picking up between $8 and $12 of the $26 million that is owed Damon. At $7 million per year, Johnny Damon makes sense.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 03:33 PM) I'd rather dump Crede and use Damon's money on Bonds for one season. Damon's name is worth more than his production at this point in his career. Good point, if you could get Barry for $13 million. The problem is that Barry is about 3/4 of a player at this point; you can't DH him because Thome is there and ALMOST as productive as Barry. Even if you rested Konerko against some tough right handers, you've got somewhat of a "where would he play" problem with Bonds. His LF defense is getting very bad - think sub-Carlos Lee 2003-2005 (Carlos was so awful last year its unbelievable). His ZR is bottoming out, RF is low, assists low, etc. I think Barry Bonds + Jerry Owens for 162 games is not as >> than Johnny Damon as you would think. In any case, I think the Sox HAVE to go for some OBP in the offseason. Carl Crawford is not going to be the solution, nor will Torii Hunter or Aaron Rowand.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 01:02 PM) Great...we get older with this deal. You need to trade AWAY guys that are ready to decline, not trade FOR THEM. It is true, the White Sox are trying to become the Midwest version of the Baltimore Orioles. It's actually 1 year of Crede at $4-5 million for Damon's 34-year-old and 35-year-old seasons at $13 million (less whatever the Yankees pick up). It's not like Damon is 38 years old. The career curve of a corner outfielder from ages 31-35 is a flatter slope than you probably think. Damon already has decent older player skills (plate discipline, etc.).

Oddly, this makes an enormous amount of sense. Crede is a stop-gap at 3B for the Yankees at a decent price (say $5 million) while they wait for Miggy Cabrera to be a free agent. He's also known as a clutch hitter in the playoffs...so he solves a peception problem there. Downside is that Crede doesn't have the Yankee plate discipline. He's not a Cashman type of guy. On the other side, the Yankees have no use for Damon next year. They are set with an outfield of Mellky Cabrera, Hideki Matsui and Bobby Abreu. The DH spot in NY is for Giambi, who will make $22 million in the last year of his contract and is untradeable. So if they give Damon to the White Sox and pick up, say, $4 million of his salary each year, it's a freebie for them. On the Sox side, here is KW getting a "proven veteran" with leadoff potential who can fill the LF spot and CF spot in a pinch to replace Pods / Erstad. As "bad" as he was last year, he still had a .351 OBP for the Yankees, which would only trail that of Thome on the Sox. Given that the Cell is a better place to hit right now than Yankee stadium, he's likely to go something like .290/.360/.440 for the Sox and be a HUGE offensive improvement. I'd think the Sox would have to add someone to this deal - maybe someone like a Chris Carter (low level, high ceiling prospect) or a Lance Broadway (higher level, lower ceiling, #1 draft pick mojo). The Sox would be adding payroll in this deal - about $3 million in 2008 - but it's not too bad. I agree that you don't do this deal until Spring Training and Crede shows he can play pain free. NOTE: THIS IS A BORAS CLIENT FOR BORAS CLIENT DEAL.