Punch and Judy Garland

that is very cool.

Short of the Cubs firing their manager, Adding Rafael Furcal and Brian Giles along with 30 plus starts apiece from their starters and somehow find effective arms in the 6-7-8 innings, its just not going to happen.

I do think the Twins would have been to a world series by now with a 70 million dollar payroll. They brought out the best in us, no question

I tend to agree that Damon will be in pinstripes. They desperately need to move the lineup back. Jeter as the leadoff guy and A-Rod in the two-hole just doesn't work as well for me as Damon leading off and then the other two are in perfect roles.

Correct because you want to protect Manny with Konerko, and not Konerko with Manny. Plus, when possible, its nicer to have the faster of the two hitters hit 3rd. Not that there is any speed to be had with Manny and Paulie! Wouldn't you pay a dollar for a ppv footrace?

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 08:51 PM) That were all let go. Correct but those were guys that were in the playoffs and lost. I didn't mention Ramon Hernandez, Jermaine Dye, and Jason Isringhausen. It was said that they lost because they didn't have stars but that is certainly a falsehood

Can anyone actually recall a holdout in baseball?

QUOTE(Wedge @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 08:22 PM) Moneyball is a lot of hype, but those Oakland teams always boiled down to having some damn good starting pitching and scrapping together a bullpen and offense. Ultimately, they lacked the star power to succeed in the playoffs. The theory behind Moneyball can be summarized accurately as follows: "you want batters that don't make outs and pitchers that do". Duh! I don't know if I buy that. Giambi, Damon, Tejada, Chavez-there are superstars there.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 05:39 PM) True, but Rowand didn't put up numbers similar to 2004 this season. He hasn't shown the consistency that Damon has offensively. I would take Damon's offense over Rowand's any day of the week. But I would take Rowand's defense over Damon's any day of the week. If they made the same money? Damon>Rowand overall and its an insanely easy choice. However, given the contracts-THIS team is better off with Rowand

color me bad

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 04:04 PM) The whole situation in LA is screwed up. There's rumblings about how McCourt didn't want the guy that DePo wanted (Collins), and how DePo didn't meet face-to-face with Hershiser (sp?). Plus, the media out there pretty much despised DePodesta the day he was hired -- that doesn't help, either. Either way, though, you can't say that two years is enough to judge a GM. It wasn't even two years, though -- he didn't even get the 2003-2004 off-season -- the only moves he really made were trading for Milton Bradley, and the 2004 deadline moves of Penny/LoDuca and Finley/(whomever). And, of course, his 2005 moves. Personally, just from reading about DePodesta, I don't think he's a very good 'people' person, and I think that's killing him. But, again -- that's just what I've read, which, admittedly, isn't enough to make a full-fledged stance on either side. I just believe that two years really isn't enough. I agree that it is hard to judge too much of a guy on such a small tenure. That said, you hit the nail on the head with the people person part. I think that he lost the credibiility with his peers when he backed out of the Randy Johnson 3-way deal (I think it was RJ). Even if that is the owner's fault, it reflects poorly ont he gm to renege.

QUOTE(fathom @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 03:12 PM) No team in baseball will trade for Duque to be a starting rotation pitcher. He has serious health questions, and his contract isn't exactly cheap this season. Rowand/Marte/Duque would get you laughed at by Theo. To get Manny, it would more be like Contreras and Chris Young for Manny. That is not true in my opinion. That being said, the market for him will always be stronger for a team midseason when they are more desperate. I think Orlando is an intriguing option if you are a team like Washington, to reunite the brothers in a pitchers park, or Florida who could use a Cuban star and a flyball pitcher in that park. If we were to trade for Delgado, Hernandez would likely be a piece as some salary back there way.

WS clinch? Pinch Penny Pub swigging chamapagne. Great night

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 02:14 PM) And the Red Sox should have signed Kirk Saarloos and every team should have signed David Dellucci and... It's easy to do this analysis ex-post. I think most people thought last year that $2 mil/per more for Renteria was at least even -- at least for the Red Sox, who had some money to burn. And I still think Renteria will be better next year. Oh no. I believed this then. This is not arm-chair QB. While I never thought Edgar would be so bad defensively for them, I thought it was odd to replace a guy who was a sparkplug in the clubhouse for a champion with a guy who was more expensive and arguably not any better. Boston rolled the dice because they said they wanted to operate without sentiment so they turfed guys liek Dave Roberts and Orlando Cabrera. And that plan simply did not work.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 02:42 PM) Actually, the White Sox and Athletics were awfully similar this year. Offensive theories aside... -Both ranked near the top of the league in team defense -- Defensive Efficiency, which I believe is the number of balls in play converted into outs, had Oakland and the Sox ranked #1 and #2. I think defense is going to start becoming very popular amongst the saber-oriented teams, especially as better ways of valuing it begin to emerge. -Both ranked near the top of the leagues in pitching. Both teams carried five above average starters, along with a dominant closer (Street vs. Hermy/Jenks) and setup man (Duchscherer vs. Cotts & Politte). Of course, in both cases, we were slightly better (starting pitching) or deeper (bullpen). -And, finally, neither offense were very good. Oakland scored 30 more runs than the Sox scored. Both teams were able to be in their respective positions because of strong pitching and superb defenses behind them. I am, however, a little surprised by the DePodesta decision. I don't know how to judge his offseason moves -- the main guys he brought in didn't do terribly (Kent, Lowe, and Drew were all very good -- you can argue about Drew, but still, a HBP on the wrist? Maybe if he strained a hammy in the OF, but a HBP strikes me as sort of a freak incident), and the guys he let go, for the most part, were awful (Finley and Beltre were awful, but Green was pretty good -- although, the Dodgers have their future catcher now). I don't know, regardless of whether or not you think sabermetrics is the way to go, or whether or not you think DePo is a good GM -- the axe after two years, one of which was a playoff year? Seems harsh to me, but that's the way it is, I guess. There was a mutiny this year in LA and the GM has to be accountable for that. Normally, you would say the manager but the GM brought those guys in and the team knew that the GM wanted the manager gone. Gammons hypothesizes that Orel and Bobby V are possibilities for LA. I think Bobby V would be an excellent choice. He's not an LA guy but he'd bring something the Dodgers have lacked. Lastly, after reading Three Nights in August and hearing about JD in Atlanta, I'd have no interest in him on my team-stats be damned

QUOTE(fathom @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 02:11 PM) The bus missed Rowand when it went low and away at the last second. HI-O!!!!!

BTW

I think, or at least it seems reasonable to me, that McCourt would go away from a moneyball gm here. Kind of like how you only replace fiery managers with laidback guys and vice-versa.

QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 12:59 PM) I am always tempted by this I would get orgasms thinking about Manny hitting 60 HR at the Cell Kidding aside, Ozzie could shape up Manny IMHO (Latino factor). We did take chances on AJP and Carl and see how that turned out. If Paulie leaves, and we decide to re-sign Frank, if we can trade for Manny ONLY for prospects and maybe Marte, I would book hotel reservations for the 2nd World Series appearance right now Of course, I would make Bo SOx eat at least half of his remaining ridiculous contract too. At a combined 5.5 million for this year did we take those risks. Manny gets 58 over the next three

QUOTE(Wedge @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 12:55 PM) The secret is the pitching. For each of the last 3 champions, the pitching has dropped off drastically the next season. For us, it's a matter of keeping our guys healthy. I'm concerned mostly about Hermanson. Hopefully Jenks can be an everyday closer. He didn't have the consistency that Hermanson had going early on in the season. Other than that, the starters and bullpen are in great shape if they can keep going like they did this year. I think there are questions about Jenks' ability to sustain success for a full season. Will Hermy be ready to start the year next year? Legit concerns. As much as I'd love BJ Ryan as a set-up man here as insurance, whoever we trade Marte for could give us a decent option perhaps. If we traded Marte for a guy like Jose valverde or someone of his stature, we'd have enough insurance and another good arm

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 12:47 PM) My thoughts exactly. And let's not throw that whole cancer crap around as I've seen for Damon and Manny. Wasn't AJ a supposed cancer? How about Everett? What the hell happened? That said, I'd pass for the reason Chisoxfn gave. We have bigger needs than another leadoff hitter. Well I think that Manny is a different case than AJ. There is a long public history of what he will do. 4 straight offseasons demanding a trade. Once a summer he takes a criticall series off (seems to be the Yankees one each time). He doesn't run out balls, etc. Much different case than AJ.. Aj was a flier at less than 2 million bucks that we could have released if he caused a problem. At 18-20 per, Manny is not the same case. Is Damon a cancer? No. But I do think the success in Boston changed him a bit.

I think that you won't find a prospect with as little risk as Howard in return. I say that because Howard is older and proven at the big league level as a hitter. The cons are that he can only play one position, and that is a position that the league has no shortage of good players at. Lastly, teams know Philly HAS to do something, which probably lessens their returns. If I were KC, I might think about offering Billy Butler and Andy Sisco or something like that to get a thumper in the lineup. Same goes for Pittsburgh. How about Oliver Perez for Ryan Howard? Would make sense for both teams

QUOTE(bighurt2719 @ Oct 29, 2005 -> 11:13 AM) My personal favorites: "Who is Geoff Blum, anyway?" "The Sox are deluding themselves if they believe Bobby Jenks -- a 270-pound rookie reliever -- can stop a historic free-fall." WHO IS KARIM GARCIA?????????

Renteria was not better than Cabrera last year. That said, they both stunk. Renteria was a bit better at the dish while Cabrera was much better in the field. They could have kept a guy who helped them win a championship, but they spent 40 million over 4 years for qual or lesser overall production. That was change for changes sake.

Damon would be a superb pickup by the Cubs who need everything he brings to the table. Good player, no way is he great, but he'd do a lot fo them