nitetrain8601

QUOTE (rangercal @ May 28, 2009 -> 01:05 PM) You know something we all don't know, or is this just assumption? Logic tells me that with open salary space the Bulls have: 1. #3 Market 2. Derrick Rose 3. Good role players It will be between CLE, NY and Chicago. Book it. Bulls are going hard after Wade, Bosh, and Amare. Bulls brass feels LeBron is a longshot. They will try to get him if they think he actually wants to come here and not just drive up the price, but they don't want to waste their time courting him when they could be using that valuable time courting Wade, Bosh, and Amare.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 28, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) I think you are missing the point. I dont agree with age restrictions past the age of 18. I dont agree with them on Senators, I dont agree with them on basketball players, I dont agree with them on any job. If an employer is willing to hire you, you should be able to get the job. The problem with the NBA, and why its different than your examples, is that some NBA employers would hire players at the age of 18. They just have colluded to make it so that they can unfairly limit the market. In a word no. The ADA requires "accommodation" at the work place. I remember the Casey Martin, the argument was based on "accommodation" that Casey Martin was just as good of a golfer, but due to disability could not walk (which is not part of the game). This is far different than an person who is not qualified to be a player, getting special treatment. An example of a similar accommodation would be: An NBA player has a strange condition that he has to wear pants when he plays. The NBA rules state all players must have similar uniforms. It is likely that a court would say that player is allowed to wear pants and play in the NBA, because it has no impact on the game. I guess at the end of the day I dont think the NBA has a legitimate argument for why it should be allowed to discriminate by age. I think that the NFL has a much better one, and as such while I disagree with the NFL rule, I understand that it is most likely for the best interest of the player. I'm going to ignore the 18 year old argument because that's something completely different. I'll say this though. You say it didn't help Rose's game at all not to have to worry about an SAT or school for that matter. I disagree. Worrying about school work means less time to spend in the gym, less time in the weight room, and less time studying a playbook which is something you shouldn't underestimate a freshman PG. So yes, it did not only benefit Rose off the court, but on as well.

QUOTE (rangercal @ May 28, 2009 -> 12:33 PM) I'm an old school type of fan who can appreciate a once in a generation player at an early age. That help has disappeared against Orlando. That help can't even send Dwight to the foul line. That help is good help during non pressure situations, but they are all showing their true colors now. The greedy bulls fan in me wants the Cleveland ship to sink . I'm convinced the Bulls will be a major player for Lebron. The supporting cast in Chicago thrives on Pressure. Pretty much. We play up (or down) to our competition. When you have a guy like LeBron, you could get away with playing flat against a cheap team during the season because a guy like LeBron could kick it into 5th gear in the 4th and win you a game. In the playoffs when you are playing the top competition, everyone on the Bulls suddenly player better and with a guy like LeBron, he could be a major helper. No one can convince me Mo Williams is a better 2nd option than Ben Gordon. In fact, I'd take almost every rotation player on the Bulls over anyone on Cleveland. With that said, LeBron ain't coming here.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 28, 2009 -> 12:02 PM) No one is saying he has to. He could go work at McDonald's if he wanted to. If he wanted to play basketball in the states he could play in the USBL, ABA, CBA etc... He has options. Playing basketball in the NBA is a privilege, not a right. Bingo. He had other options. Fact is he wanted to do it his way and get everything he could. Calipari did everything to give him what he wanted to win. Fact is, if one is guilty in this case, both are. If you don't think Rose is guilty, then why the hell is Cal guilty? I understand if your views are that players in NCAA make a billion dollars for them, so why aren't they allowed to receive anything back? Well he received kick back from Coach Cal. So let's not blame the taker, only the giver and let's go take stakes to him. SMH.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 28, 2009 -> 11:18 AM) The logic for absolving Rose is that Rose should have never had to go to the NCAA in the first place. If Rose could have entered the NBA draft there wouldnt be so much pressure on him to get a good SAT score, so that he can then quit college to go to the draft. I doubt it was about going to Memphis, my guess is that if his SAT score was so low that he couldnt get into Mephis, he could not have gotten into any Division I program. If he cheated the system, it was so that he could go on to play in the NBA. Cal cheated the system so he could get a competitive edge. Some one taking the SAT for Rose didnt make him a better basketball player. He could've gone to Europe and made money. Fact is, both guys cheated the system to get what they wanted, period. If this was Beasley we were talking about, there would be so many guys saying, "Oh, I'm glad we didn't draft him. What a knucklehead, etc." The only difference between Rose and Beasley is that Rose is quiet and Beasley is cocky.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 28, 2009 -> 10:59 AM) The logic for absolving the athlete for certain transgressions is pretty simple; these guys make millions for the schools and for the coaches, if the kids who actually are playing get a little extra back, no one really feels that bad. Okay, so let's blame the coaches and give them crap for "rightfully" giving back to the kids? It's a two way street. If Cal is dirty for giving Rose money, Rose is dirty for taking it. If Cal gave a way out for Rose to qualify on his SAT's, Rose is dirty for taking it. Either you believe Rose and Cal are guilty, or they are not because they made the university and NCAA a lot of money. There's no seperating them as much as people want to because Rose is a humble kid.

It was Rose. He was the only other player who started their career at Memphis in 07-08 besides Mr. Robinson. The name blurred out is much shorter than Robinson. It's also in the Sun-Times. I still don't believe how people will absolve Derrick for this but give Coach Cal all the flack for it. Rose went to Memphis because of the money from Addidas and from the boosters there. Coach Cal made it an easy process for him. It's a two way street and they were extremely happy to meet each other on the same street courtesy of Reggie Rose.

QUOTE (WilliamTell @ May 27, 2009 -> 12:37 PM) Didn't those two get in a fight a few years back, or was it Miller and some other big man? It was those two. Shaq swung and completely missed on Miller. If he connected though, he probably would've been suspended for awhile. It was a huge swing that could've knocked out anyone.

I'd be happy with Shaq for a year. I think he's good enough if we keep the rest of our team intact, to actually contend for at least a year. Then when we lose him, well, back to a little better than we wer.

Easily Nascar followed by Horse Racing.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ May 6, 2009 -> 07:30 PM) Does anyone else besides me and Jason listen to Taking Back Sunday or am I talking to myself? (Because I don't count Jason). I listen to them. I constantly have Louder Now on rotation blasting Liar, MakeDamnSure and Error: Operator

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 8, 2009 -> 11:39 AM) I didn't want to be the first to say it...but I'll go with it now...how many "absolute athletic freaks" have there been in the last 10 years who have so far turned out to actually be clean? I can think of Pujols...and we all know what road that goes down. The NBA's steroid testing program is no where near as intense as MLB's. The NBA is still in that boat of thinking "Oh it won't help, our guys need quickness and steroids won't help with that" like where MLB was when they were making excuses in 95-2000. And even then, Manny was able to get through a full cycle without ever testing positive, he was only caught because some documents proved he had the stuff to take when you're coming down off a cycle shipped to him. Everyone knows the NFL has an enormous number of juicers, everyone knows MLB has a problem but they're at least making an effort at it, the NBA is still off in the wilderness for now. And the NBA testing is a joke. All it requires from what I heard is you peeing in a cup. I'd like for every sport to adopt the USOC way of testing. Keep the blood samples and look for abnormalities from one test to the next. I also wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Ben Wallace was on the 'roids either. That's just my honest opinion.

BTW, if there ever was a candidate for PED's in the NBA, it would be LeBron. 4% body fat and the guy looks like he's 260. That's a whole nother discussion as well.

Jordan all day everyday. I'd probably take Kobe over LeBron too. But this is about Jordan. His will to win was incomparable. Jordan made you play better or he would kick your [beep]. Jordan wouldn't put up with LeBron's antics at the beginning of games with all that posing. Jordan would've made LeBron cry in his sleep with nightmares of Jordan who consistently burning his team.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 8, 2009 -> 07:13 AM) It's not about that. At all. It's about standing up for your teammates and letting other teams know that they can't come inside, knock your guys down or hit them free of any consequences. I, too have noticed that it seems we've been hit a lot this year. It's not about tit for tat, it's about protecting your teammates. That doesnt mean you have to throw a heater at someones head either. Bingo.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 7, 2009 -> 04:58 AM) Messi and Ronaldo are givens as 1/2 (in any order) at this point. I'd personally place Kaka ahead of Torres at this point. Torres is a great player, but he's too one dimensional for me. I actually like David Villa more than Torres. Also, people tend to forget about the Afircans, but Eto'o, Emmanuel Adebayor and Michael Essien are fantastic players. Villa is underrated. Eto's great, but I expect more out of Adebayor though.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ May 6, 2009 -> 01:33 PM) I've been over Hinrich for a while now. His downfall to an incredibly average player has stumped everyone. Yet, he's still a great defensive player, a good leader, can play and guard 2 positions, and has valuable experience. And he can also light it up once in a while. I think Tyrus' main issue is laziness and lack of hustle on the court. It pisses me off endlessly. The fact that guys like Big Bayby Davis beat him down the court is unacceptable. He just seems to not care sometimes and he definitely gets frustrated EXTREMELY easily. I can't remember who it was again, but there was a game a couple months ago that Tyrus went up for a dunk, got absolutely rejected and hit the deck HARD. He wanted a foul, but it was a super clean block. Then a possession or 2 later, he threw down a dunk on that player. And still pissed, a possession or 2 later, he tried to do it again only to get a ridiculous charge called on him. And on the other end, he fouled the player again. And as far as our team defense, it's a mix of both. Our scheme is stupid. We play man defense and stress help defense, but our players are too dumb/lazy/slow/bad to rotate quick enough. And we're HORRIBLE at making adjustments in game. Glen Davis killed us all series, yet we still allowed him to take open jumper after open jumper. Defense is ENTIRELY about effort. It's as simple as that. We saw how good our team could be at times against Boston when the team REALLY wanted it and buckled down defensively. Stay on your toes, keep your feet moving, keep your hands out, and play with your feet, not your hands. Agreed. No doubt he has heart, but I think he lets others get the best of him in his head. Definitely agreed about the defensive aspect.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ May 6, 2009 -> 01:18 PM) I can live with the trade because Tyrus showed some major improvement this year IMO and I think his attitude now is a lot better than it was. But it was still an absolutely horrific trade, and that's reality. As for Tyrus' defense, I will say it was a lot better this year (as was everything else he did), but he still played below average defense (much better defense, but still below average) and took way too many goaltendings IMO. As for the post (can't remember who it was) which said Derrick will never be a top 5 player because of his defense and jump shot, well he will never be one with his current defense and jump shot, but those are things that can be impoved. I think his jump shot this year was much better than his jump shot at Memphis, and I think he will continue to work hard and continue to improve on it. As for his defense, that's the #1 reason I want VDN gone, defense. Derrick, and everybody else on this team, will struggle to improve on defense as long as a coach who simply does not care about his team guarding is in charge. And you can't win a championship that way. Well that's what I meant. If Rose doesn't have a jumper, or rather the jumper he has now, along with his defense, he won't be sniffing top 15 player. The defense is an attitude thing. Again, it goes back to his coasting. And Tyrus and Deng seemed to have improved on defense this year with VDN. It's a matter of scheme and players. VDN cares about defense which is why he doesn't run a true SSOL offense. So his guys could get back and guard up.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ May 6, 2009 -> 01:20 PM) Messi and Ronaldo are top 2, order not a horribly big deal. There are quite a few players fighting for that #3 spot. Nemanja Vidic has asserted himself as one of the best defenders in the world. Steven Gerrard is still an incredible playmaker for Liverpool and Fernando Torres is a prolific goal scorer. I'd say those are my top 5... Ronaldo, Messi, Torres, Vidic, Gerrard Ronaldo Messi and Torres. Excellent. My top 3 as well. I might slip Kaka in there.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ May 6, 2009 -> 01:24 PM) That draft will probably be worse than this one, but the reason I made the point I did is that draft had players with potential in it who simply busted. I believe this years draft will be ALMOST as bad as 2000, and unlike 2000, this draft has almost nobody with major NBA potential in it IMO. Agreed. For example, guys like Marcus Fizer and Kenyon Martin were thought to be stud players as well at Darius Miles. Stromile Swift was supposed to be what Dwight Howard is. DeMar Johnson had all-star SG potential. They busted, however, for their own reasons. This draft, there is Griffin who people expect to be a solid guy and a possible all-star and the same goes with Rubio. After that, no one is expected to do much which means, they'll perform under expectations as a whole and be even worse.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ May 6, 2009 -> 01:07 PM) There were 4 plays in the box that could have very easily been called penalty kicks for Chelsea in that game, and none of them were (two were really bad, one was a blatant hand ball that wasn't called, and another was a blatant foul which actually was called, but was somehow called outside the box even though it was clearly inside) so I can understand their anger at the refs. However, they still had a 1-0 lead in the 2nd half at home with an 11 vs. 10 man advantage, and found a way to blow it, so they have absolutely nobody to blame but themselves. Chelsea dominated the game and still found a way to blow it. I'm not a soccer expert (I've just started to follow the sport basically since the 2006 World Cup) but AC Milan or Roma? I thought the winner of Barcelona/ManU is the "World Champion"? For the Champions League tourney next year. With that said, AC has to stop signing guys who have passed their peak and start bringing in young talent.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ May 6, 2009 -> 12:58 PM) Ya, he's a douche, but he's probably a top 3 player in the world right now. His 2 goals yesterday were absolutely amazing. List your top 3. I'd honestly say, and I hate to say it, he's the best player in the world.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 6, 2009 -> 12:51 PM) But he's not a good defender. He gets blocks. He also takes stupid fouls and plays ole' defense way too much. Blocks do not = defense. See: Chris Kaman. He doesn't play ole' defense, but he does make some stupid fouls sometimes, I agree. Blocks don't equal defense, I agree. But blocks, sticking with your man, rotating out to help defend and steals are considered defense. Again, the main thing he struggles with are guys who can shoot because he'll allow them to take the jumper all day instead of manning that person up. QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ May 6, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) OMG, take things uber literally why don't you. Ok, not ALL of his blocks come from help D, but MOST of them do. There, I'm still f***ing right. Yes, I don't realize where Tyrus' steals come from, because I cannot honestly remember a single relevant steal Tyrus made all season, and I'd say I watched at least 3/4 of the games. It's not like he's shutting down his guy and not allowing him to do anything and just stripping the ball from him. Give me a f***ing break Gerry. And I maintain that he's not a good rebounder because, well, he's not a good f***ing rebounder. And don't ever f***ing bring up Dwight Howard when talkign about Tyrus again. Dwight had like 2-3 inches and 50 pounds on Tyrus and could snap him the f*** in half. I realize that athleticism leads to a lot of rebounds, but if Tyrus is such a freak athlete, he should be able to rebound a f***ton better. So don't give me your bs/hyperbole crap, because as much as I hate Tyrus, you slurp the guy twice as much. In a legitimate, sincere statement, I'd argue that 75% of his block are on help D, no joke. Like I've said, I'm not denying that Tyrus improved this past season, because he absolutely did. But he's still incredible mediocre, he's always going to have to prove himself because of the Aldridge trade, and all the retard fanboys who only see some sort of amazing potential make me hate him even more. And again, you're top defender argument is SUPER flawed. We're a horrific defensive team. Being a top 3 defender on a terrible defending team means nothing. If anyone thinks that Tyrus is actually a really good defensive player, I'm going to disagree a whole hell of a lot. I'll say Tyrus should be able to rebound more, but for a guy who is completely relying on athletic ability and not technique nor strength, almost 10 rebounds per game is pretty damn good. If he could muscle up, it would help his technique in that he would be able to box out his defenders and therefore grab more rebounds. Now if he actually bulks up is a whole nother story as we saw guys like Deng or Tyrus never do it. I'd still venture to say, 60% at most are blocks from help defense. Obviously, unless we find a stat online somewhere, there's no way to tell because I doubt either of us have every game saved to our DVR. Our DVR hard drive aint big enough. One can argue we're a terrible defensive team because of our scheme. I think you're one of them, but I won't quote you on it. The thing is, say Tyrus really is a bad defender and it's not scheme. In that situation, Rose is 90X's worse than anyone imagined and that's solely on him. I look at a defense which switches every single time, even if the matchup states we should stay at home. I personally think it's a flaw in either VDN's system, or the players themselves who always switch. That's up for debate. If it's the scheme, then VDN, Ociepka and Bickerstaff who all handle the defense need to work out several kinks.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ May 6, 2009 -> 12:37 PM) Michael Ballack is a piece of s***. Go ManU in the final! Cristiano is an even bigger douche, though I respect his talent. With that said, I hope AC Milan or Roma handles any one of these guys.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 6, 2009 -> 12:20 PM) Wow. QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ May 6, 2009 -> 12:25 PM) All his blocks come from help defense. I still don't know how he get's steals. And he is not a very good rebounder. Most of boards come from, yes, you guessed it, out-jumping people. Like I said earlier, he doesn't EVER take over games on the glass, Noah can. See: Thomas, Tyrus - 89th best rebounder in the NBA. And had a sizzling 9.3/40 minutes. So yeah. Not all of his blocks come from help defense. A lot do, but not nearly the 80 or 90% you make them out to be. I'd probably say 55-60% do which is fine. A block is a block. No need to be picky about it. You also have to take into account the fact that since he has great blocking/jumping ability, he alters a lot of shots. He gets steals as he has long arms and he's super athletic. With that said, it's easy for him to reach around a player and pick the ball or when he plays help defense or when he plays the passing lanes which he's able to do and not get burned frequently because of his ability to recover quickly(see: athleticism) I agree, he should be outrebounding people, and maybe that's something he can improve upon in the offseason. His man defense is solid as well despite popular belief. When he struggles, it's with guys who can shoot. Like Bargnani flat out eats this guy alive because Tyrus always lets them take the jumper instead of bodying up. He's far from a perfect player, and he's very very frustrating at times, but it's easy to see the upside and improvement that he has made. I also find it funny that the very same people who claim defense is the uber important thing in a team and b**** about Gordon's defense, complain about one of our top 3 defenders and our best post defender whether you like to admit it or not.