nitetrain8601

Well if you upgrade the foul to a Flagrant 1, which is what I wanted, if Rondo gets another flagrant, that's a suspension I believe. If the league just acknowledged, hey, we screwed up, that would be okay with me. But to say it never happened is a farce, especially the explanation given.

I'm pissed they won't acknowledge that they made an error. Wow, that's ridiculous.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 29, 2009 -> 04:13 PM) Depends on what the refs allow. I think almost everyone here will agree that you have to hit Rose a lot harder than you have to hit Rondo to get a foul called on you this series so far. I say we put in Roberson and Tonya Harding Rondo. Make the refs call that Flagrant 2.

I'll say the play ran last night for Brad Miller was a good play. Very good. Only thing is, if Miller was faster, he would've made it. For him particularly, I would've liked it if he popped a jumper or threw passed last second to Salmons when everyone collapsed on him. Ben was being triple teamed, so again, the Bulls made a good call on that pass. Now, as far as Hinrich, VDN stated he wanted to get him in the game for more of the second half, but he kept bleeding so they had to repatch him and he wasn't able to gain rhtym since then. Hopefully, we get physical for the next game. I think if we do, we'll shake them up.

QUOTE (Ron @ Apr 29, 2009 -> 01:11 PM) I'm really ready for Ben to go after last night. His shot selection was trash (even moreso than usual), and I'm still not sure why Vinny puts the ball in his hands and the end of regulation as much s he struggled. Give Derrick the rock and get something going to the basket. Ben was actually contributing in other ways with assists and playing good defense on Ray. His shooting sucked last night, but I'm glad his free throw shooting returned. The reason why Rose didn't get the ball is because he's a huge reason why we blew an 11 point lead by blowing layups and tossing turnover after turnover. In the past 3 games, Derrick has 20 turnovers. Even as a rookie, that's inexcusable. Out of guys in the rotation, here are the playoff PERS Gordon - 21.9 Derrick - 21.7 Noah - 16.6 Tyrus - 16.5 Kirk - 9.0 Salmons - 7.5 Miller - 7.2

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Apr 28, 2009 -> 12:34 AM) I love Mel Kiper personally. He's been wrong on alot of occasions, but he is one of the rare ESPN analyst that is legit and knows what he's talking about. Also called D.J. Moore (our 4th or 5th round pick I believe) the best late steal of the draft. As just a fan of football, I love Mel Kiper as well. He knows a lot of his stuff. Are some guys going to pan out that he originally didn't predict? Yes. Will some guys bust that he didn't think would? Yes. Everyone's wrong, but I find it he's a lot better at predicting than most other teams.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Apr 27, 2009 -> 03:05 PM) Don't take it farther than it has to go nite... You're probably right. I edited it out.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Apr 27, 2009 -> 01:26 PM) Well congrats on living in some fantasy world where you think this team will do anything other than .500 and bounced in the playoffs every year. If you're content with that, then there's no point in arguing. BG is not and never will be a "superstar" in this league and I don't want to watch a .500 team every year because we paid $100+ million for 2 average players. And got better every year? Really? So after '06 when the entire city was "OMG!@!@@!!! Deng + Gordon!!" and they declined $120 million in contracts and then both sucked the next year, that was an improvement? But by all means, lets stick with this core of players. BG, Deng, Kirk....I smell a dynasty. Also, the fact that you seem to want BG more than Rose nullifies all of your arguments, just for future reference. Lol, wow. Now I can tell you're not paying attention at all. Where did I state, let's keep Deng and Gordon on this team? In fact, I've been arguing to get Deng off the team, with Gordon or no Gordon. When did I ever say Gordon was a superstar? He's a borderline all-star at his peak, but that's about it. I never ever said superstar. I never said stick with the core, never did I say "OMG Deng and Gordon", nor did they decline $120 million in contracts at any point, and Gordon, still had a decent year last year if you checked the stats. I never stated I wanted to keep that trio together either. The most I've ever said was keep Hinrich as a combo guard off the bench and Gordon as the starting SG unless you can find a superstar. And the only thing I ever said was Gordon is better than Rose now, which is understandable as one is a veteran and the other a 20 year old rookie. I'm one of many people, including the media, who have made that argument.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 27, 2009 -> 10:02 AM) I also believe the Broncos traded their first rounder next year and not the pick they received from the Bears. Either Josh McDaniels is going to be the biggest surprise ever, or he's going to be known as the biggest idiot ever. On par with Jim Bowden. I'm going with the latter.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Apr 27, 2009 -> 10:48 AM) I go on what I watch. After Gordon hits 1-2 shots, its game over. He will be shooting the next 8 times down the court no matter what, miss or make. I go on never ever watching a bulls game and thinking "damn, look at Gordon's D there". I go on the fact that not one championship caliber team has a player like Gordon (and no, that's not a good thing). And where the f*** did I say the Deng signing was good??? I'm pleading with the idiots of Chicago to NOT turn this into another f***ing 60 million dollar dump on an average player. We are stuck with Deng for 4 more years of a ridiculous contract, I don't want to ruin the franchise for another 5 years by s***ting out money for BG. If he wants to resign for 3 mil a year? Cool, go for it. But paying 10+ for him would screw us for yet another handful of years. I agree that we will be an above average team with BG, but I want more than that (and so should every other fan). I want to have the money to go balls out next summer and potentially bring another dynasty to Chicago. I don't want to go .500 ever year and get bounced in the first round of the f***ing playoffs which is the most we will ever get with BG as our guy. Really? So even though Gordon averages about 15 or 16 shots a game as this team's leading scorer, go to option and SHOOTING guard, he supposedly hits 2 or 3 shots a game and then starts taking shots over anyone? Wow, that's funny because that means he's hitting ridiculous shots left and right by looking at his percentages and his output on a per game basis. So if he's doing that, I hope he continues as the numbers suggest, it's a good percentage shot from him. Also, move Salmons over to SG, do you really think he's better at running the offense and sharing the ball? Because you're delusional if you think so. In fact, out of the players who do play on this team, I'm 99% sure, he takes the lowest assisted shots on the team by a good margin. This team with Rose Gordon Salmons Insert big man here in 2010 Noah is infinitely better than Rose Salmons(if he resigns, he is a FA after 2010 and he's also on the wrong side of 30) Deng(who has gotten worse over the past 2 years) Big man Noah Also, there's a different between Deng and Gordon. Deng was a guy the Bulls signed off of potential they thought he had. He had not produced more for this team than Gordon has over the same course of time. He was better at rebounding and that's it which is expected for a SF. His defense wasn't great up until this year in which defense is all he could do and he did it at an All-Defensive team level. Deng never showed improvement, however, when he signed that contract. He's the same player he was his rookie year. Yet, people here wanted Deng resigned and Gordon not. Gordon, on the flipside, has become better each year and has improved on different aspects of his game. He's also been a gym rat since he's been here and does what he needs to do. Never did he ever complain about coming off the bench, but yet people think he hates it. With a guy like Deng, even after bringing in a superstar, it's going to be hard to be championship level since we would have no consistent outside threat. Heck, there's not many threats in the league like Ben. QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Apr 27, 2009 -> 10:48 AM) This whole section is quite biased. -First off, Devin Harris and Paul Pierce also take fewer shots per game than Ben, and Chris Paul is at 16.1 attempts. -Second, using that as the reason that he is the "most efficient" is a flawed stat because many of those players average far more than 20.7 points. Wade takes 6 more shots but also averages 9 and a half more points. Lebron takes 4 more shots and averages almost 8 more points. Durant takes 3 more shots and averages 4 and a half more points. I think you get the point. -To continue on that last point, he's not quite the super-elite scorer you make him out to be. Of all of the qualified players that scored 20 PPG, only Al Harrington and Joe Johnson attempted fewer free throws. He also finished tied for 69th in true shooting percentage (34 of which played over 30 MPG) and tied for 13th among qualified shooting guards, so I'm not sure how that's "insane". Very good, yes, elite or most efficient, no. In order for him to fit either of those descriptions he'd really have to be a bigger threat off the dribble. While he's not terrible in that regard, he's not particularly good at it either. He is an elite shooter that the Bulls need a lot more than most teams given their lack of scoring up front and highly questionable ability to create shots outside of him and Rose. That said, he is not a superstar or franchise changer that they must keep at all costs (yeah, yeah, neither are Deng or Hinrich). If they can retain him for somewhere below Deng's contract value (not making a comparison on which would be worse, just a reference point) then by all means bring him back. However, if they simply can't come to terms with him, life will go on. Salmons and Deng are reasonable short-term solutions at the wing spots and they'll have quite a bit of cap space to work with in 2010. I admit, I did not check the stats for over a month, and I can't now but I'll take your word for it he's now behind Paul, Pierce and Devin. Also keep in mind, Pierce has Allen & KG when healthy, Paul has West(though I'd say he's more impressive than Gordon, but I expect him to be as he's the best PG in the game) and Devin has Vince. Until the Bulls get or develop a consistent threat other than Ben, he's taking a ton of these shots with the defense gameplanning against him solely, depending on if Rose wants to be aggressive that day. And the argument really isn't flawed using your reasoning. Because people here are stating he jacks up shot after shot with no regard. If that's the case, if he's able to shoot as much as Wade, Durant and LeBron without being crucified by you guys, I'm sure he'd average more points. The argument, however, is that Ben takes too many shots and he needs to completely defer to Derrick and Derrick should be the first option everytime down. I say, when Derrick is ready to do that, hell yes. But until that happens, don't get on Ben for taking as many shots as he does. And Joe Johnson is a guy many people would like to replace Ben. Hey, I like Joe too and if he were to come here with a big man, I'd certainly be down for that. The fact that Ben doesn't take many free throws doesn't help the argument that he isn't an elite scorer. It just means he doesn't take as many free throws as those around the league. Some of it has to do with him not getting calls, some of it has to do with his game being perimeter based. I agree with your last point. I think it seems like I'm an extreme Ben Gordon fan. I'm really not. If we could get a Wade or LeBron and we have to give up Ben, I'm more than happy to pack his bags. If it becomes a story of geting Amare or Bosh or keeping Ben, I'd go for the big man. With that said, I think those big guys would work better as well as Rose with Ben there and Luol gone. I don't even want Gordon to get some huge contract. I'd be willing to give him a contract with incentives which would be 10 million a year if he obtained. We would have to get rid of Deng though which I have never wanted since he ducked Josh Smith and Andre Iguodala at the draft camps. QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Apr 27, 2009 -> 10:52 AM) I would add that the PG position typically has a very low success rate for first year players. Chris Paul, Jason Kidd and Stephon Marbury are the only rookie PG's that come to mind that contributed above average play at the position. Rose is well ahead of what you can typically expect from a young PG and expecting him to be a complete player this early is kind of ridiculous. Agreed. He's an excellent player, and even though I wanted OJ, Derrick has been just as good, no wait, he's been better than Mayo overall. I thought either of them were excellent picks though. The only thing I wish he would improve on is his agressiveness. If he had that down, he could be a superstar as soon as next year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 27, 2009 -> 10:08 AM) I'm willing to give him a pass on it for now for multiple reasons: 1. He's a rookie 2. He has a dreadful coach 3. He's going from a 40 game season to at least an 88 game season, hopefully more. With that change, the conditioning difference is so big...we saw guys like Wade and Lebron take a couple years to round in to solid defensive players when they came up, and simply having the energy to keep the effort up throughout the game was a big reason why. 4. His body still has development to do, especially in the strength category. He's been bad all season long. From beginning to end. It's not an energy issue, it's a laziness issue. His scouting report from high school states that. His scouting report from college states that. I know for a fact his high school coach always got on him for this, but he hasn't changed. John Calipari has stated it's one thing he would love to see him improve and there were times last year when he actually did take him out, just to yell at him and ask him to stop being lazy and coast. Those issues have nothing to do with the coach, being a rookie, or how many games he has played. That would mean, he was trying to play defense at all times in the beginning of the season, but his technique is wrong. When he actually decides to bend his knees and d up, no one gets in front of him. The scheme, going under on the pick and roll and switching each time, may be bad, but Rose's man defense is what needs the most improvement, which tells me, the issue is not the major problem.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Apr 27, 2009 -> 09:46 AM) Why the hell do people keep saying Rose gets a free pass? No he doesn't. Posters on this board almost unanimously agree that he was brutal on defense this year. Just because it isn't said every other post doesn't mean nobody believes it. It's because people only attribute it to him being a rookie rather than laziness. He has the size and athleticism. He has pretty good technique, but fact is, he doesn't try to play defense a ton of the time which is why guys like DJ Augustin could go off on him. He coasts a ton. I have more of a problem with that, but no one does.

Very nicely done. I think the Edge and Cristian angle will lead to an alliance, but I wouldn't be mad either way. Also, Jack Swagger was ten times the champion that Cena ever was. Seriously, I hate his gimmick and such, but he's a hell of an entertainer in the ring. That Orton vs HHH finish was pretty good. That's how they should've finished wrestlemania. I also wished that had Edge win cleanly, but at least he won. I think this will lead to HHH vs Batista for the number one contender match. For Cena, he'll fight someone and be champion again by Summerslam most likely.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Apr 27, 2009 -> 12:14 AM) How often is Kirk guarding the other teams SG? Salmons? When, in the history of BG, have you seen him guard the other teams go-to G? Never, ever ever ever ever. And he never will, which affects the rest of the team who have to pick up the slack. But despite that, there is no stat for dumb in the NBA (that I know of). I've watched way too many BG "shake n bake" moves fail, too many triple teamed air balls fired up, and too many selfish shots taken to justify resigning him. Don't turn this into another 2006 Deng fiasco: hype the s*** out of an average player to the point that we give him a ridiculous contract and are held hostage by him for the next 5 years. We need to focus on building around the ridiculous 20 year old point guard we have and not forcing this "core" that has supposed to have been "coming together" for 4 years now. Its not working. Without BG next year, we still have a solid, competitive lineup with Salmons and Deng. Then when summer 2010 rolls around, we will have almost $30 million dollars to spend on the likes of LBJ, Wade, Amare, etc.....signing BG destroys that hope. And if you think we have no shot at that FA class, what team would be in better position than us? "Hey _______(Insert MVP caliber FA here), would you rather play on a team with Rose, Deng, Thomas, Noah or Eddie Curry?" If we have $30 million to spend and that group of guys, add LBJ or Wade and we are instant championship favorites. What other team in that summer has that to offer? Ben's guarded the "go-to-guard" a lot this year. In the past, yes, Kirk was the guy to handle the shooting guard, but not this year with Kirk getting injured, and Ben and Derrick starting. Kirk doesn't play a whole lot of minutes, and recently, he's been guarding Pierce. It's always been Ben guarding him throughout the year and he's been able to outproduce that player more times than not. So your argument is pretty null and void since I stated he improved on defense and is no longer a liability there in which you want to believe in that myth. Does Gordon put up selfish shots? No. He's more efficient scoring wise than Wade and LBJ actually as well. Again, as I've stated before, in the top 20 in scoring, Ben has the lowest amount of FGA only behind Dwight Howard for anyone who averages over 20PPG. So to say he is selfish and jacks up shot for the hell of it is incorrect and erroneous. Again, another myth. Now does Ben take heatcheck shots? Hell yes he does. But that's what all great scorers do. Jordan did it. Kobe LBJ and Wade sure as hell do it. I'll take those 3 or 4 heatcheck shots a game if he's still keeping up his insane TS%. Plus, I think he may be only behind Tyrus Thomas in terms of FTA per game on this team, so I don't wanna hear he doesn't get to the line either. Also, you want to advocate keeping Deng, but not Gordon? Wow. Also, the commentary on Gordon is amazingly funny. Rose catches no flak though, even though he makes lazy turnovers, again 7 turnovers last game as well, as well as much worse defense. Hello, the guy he's guarded is averaging a triple double. QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Apr 27, 2009 -> 12:38 AM) I don't give a flying f*** about defensive efficiency ratings. I can see how bad he is on defense with my eyes. And I don't understand why it has to go back to Rose all the time? Everyone understand pretty well that he's a horrible defensive player. But he's also a 20 year old rookie PG. Gordon has cornered the market on the ole/turn stile defense, can't work around a screen for the life of him, and probably allows more cuts to the hoop than any other player in the NBA. No one is denying that he has improved defensively. But he's gone from a horrific defender to a bad-to-average defender. If you're legitimately saying that Ben Gordon is a better defender than John Salmons (when 100% healthy), then you need bifocals. J4L, no one is denying that Gordon can score. It'd be nice if he could do it more consistently though. And number's don't back up any argument of that, because he has horrible nights and great nights, that's why they're called average. I'd have NO issues re-signing him if he was more consistent offensively and better defensively. With that said, if he wants to come back at a reasonable amount, abso-f***ing-lutely do it. If he wants a ton of money, peace the f*** out. And Jenksy Cat, a good number of teams will have a ton of money in 2010. The Pistons should be one of them. So you don't care about defensive ratings, stats, what coaches are seeing, what even writers are seeing, you just want to believe in what you're saying. That's okay. No one has stated he's a horrible defensive player for about 2 years now which I thank Skiles for making him decent and Kirk for teaching him technique. Everyone states he's average to slightly above average, in which he is. Sometimes, he's even better. And when did I ever ever state Gordon is a better defender than Salmons? I said he's a better SG than Salmons, in which we really haven't gotten to see Salmons play SG with the Bulls at all this year. Salmons, even with his injured groin has great defense and always has since playing in Philly. Offensively though, he's one of the biggest blackholes in the NBA. And numbers do backup the fact that he's consistently scoring. Even in bad games he's having, he used to get 2 points. Now he's at least getting double digits. All of it comes down to if the Bulls can avoid the luxury tax. Trading Deng would be the easiest since Kirk's contract was frontloaded, so now he really won't be making much at all and he actually has been producing as a combo guard off the bench. Deng has been useless. If we were able to trade him for Travis Outlaw, I'd jump for joy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 26, 2009 -> 06:28 PM) So basically you're saying I should blame the fact that Gordon keeps being totally screened out of position on Allen, thus creating repeated open shots for Allen at the end of the game, on the fact that the Bulls for some strange reason are totally unable to adapt to anything another team is doing no matter how many times in a row the opposing team does it, almost as if they are being totally outcoached. I can go with that explanation. With the screening, yes. Also, just to note, Ben was not in either possession when Ray tied the game and neither was he in when Allen hit the game winner in Game 2. Game 3, Ray Allen started poor and obtained most of his points in garbage moments. QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Apr 26, 2009 -> 07:27 PM) 0 defense. He is not a starting SG on a team that wants to be in contention. What team has a selfish starting 5'11" SG with no ball handling skills, no defensive skills and remains in title contention? Nobody. Thanks Ben for the 3 pointer today, but you have also missed just about every other buzzer/clutch shot in your career. Please Paxson, don't handcuff us with another horrific contract like you did with Deng Yeah, no. Again, look at the stats. The SG position has the lowest PER Against on the team by a wide margin. Also the PER Differential is by far best on this squad. Gordon is not only played pretty good defense throughout the season, he also is consistently outperforming the guy he is defending. Now, there are nights where other guys have burned him. With that said, the only guy who has consistently lit him up has been Kobe Bryant. QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Apr 26, 2009 -> 10:12 PM) Nite, open your f***ing eyes dude. I suggest you take some of your own advice. Let me f*** you up with some truth first. PER: 17.6 PER AGAINST: 15.0(average right on the dot) That's a plus 2.6 which is 2.0 better than the next guy which is at the SF position. At that position PER: 15.6 PER Against: 15.0 So while the defense Salmons has brought us there has been great, he really hasn't produced a great amount like some people tend to believe. Rose is right behind Gordon in terms of efficiency on the offensive end PER: 17.4 But sucks defensively: PER Against: 17.0 http://www.82games.com/0809/0809CHI5.HTM So not only do I see it, the coaches have applauded his improvement in defense, and the statisticians see it as well. Only people who don't are those from Soxtalk for some reason.

Honestly, overall, this PPV was better than Wrestlemania. Nothing beats that Michaels-Undertaker match, but all the matches tonight were beyond solid.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 26, 2009 -> 06:15 PM) In that case, he decided to stop playing defense when Ray Allen did anything in the 4th. May or may have not. Keep in mind, the Celtics have ran Allen through a ton of screens from Game 2 on. The Bulls, which is one thing I'd like to see VDN change up a bit, always switch when there is a screener involved, even when it gives the Celtics the matchup they want. That's why alot of Allen's shots have come against Noah(and Noah's played decent defense on him), or Hinrich as well as Allen. How about give the Celtics a bit of credit for some smart decisions.

QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 26, 2009 -> 04:10 PM) Ben Gordon doesn't even pretend to play defense anymore. Good riddance. The stats say different. Much different.

Ordered the PPV tonight for some reason. Swagger vs Christian was actually pretty damn good as the opening match.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Apr 25, 2009 -> 09:49 AM) It's not just Luol that they can clear out. They can move Hinrich for expirings and still compete for a 2010 Free Agent I'm sure they'll do everything they can to get Chris Bosh via trade this offseason. Perhaps a sign-and-trade. Luol will be hard to clear out. He has about 60 million guaranteed left. They would have to trade him before the end of next year as well as Hinrich to have a position and enough cap room to go after LeBron and a big man. A big man is much more needed. If you can get LeBron, you go after him, but at the same time, you're taking the ball out of Rose's hands and putting it in LeBron's which isn't bad, but Rose stinks as an off guard.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Apr 25, 2009 -> 09:24 AM) I don't follow basketball all that much, just a casual fan who'll keep tabs on the bulls once in a while.... what are the chances that the Bulls do make a big play for Lebron and actually get him? 0% as it currently stands. They have Luol's big contract, Kirk is still on the books and they are in desperate need of a big man. Luol would have to play great next year so they could trade him off for expirings, and then they could go after LeBron while having a position for him and still being able to go after a big man. You're more likely to see Amare or Bosh here.

I'd choose 0, but 1 is the closest option and that is realistic. Both guys need the ball in their hands to be of good use. Both need shooters around them to open up the lanes. A guy like LeBron would benefit more from shooters as would Derrick Rose. Shooter first, slasher second are the type of guys they need. With each other, they would just be taking turns going one on one and it would be tough for them to play off each other.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:31 AM) Time for reality to set in for everyone who freaked out after the Game 2 performance. Time for reality to set in for everyone who freaked out after the Game 1 Performance of Derrick Rose. Gordon wasn't great last game, but Rose has been worthless than last two. And for those who claim he's a rookie, he's always been this way. He'll be upbeat and want to prove something, then feels he has proved it and coasts. It's his personality, not skill that's the problem.

QUOTE (shipps @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:00 AM) chorizo is a greater gift to mankind than bacon I love it I love being Mexican just because of it!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 23, 2009 -> 08:57 PM) And now we get the other side of Ben Gordon. He went 5-13. Not a great shooting night or even an average shooting night from him. To put it in perspective, Kobe went 5-24 last night. The poor FT shooting was unchararestic for the whole team. We were best in the league in FT shooting and we did piss ass poor.