nitetrain8601

F hybrid. I'll stick with "GAAAAAAAAASSSS"

QUOTE(knightni @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 03:47 PM) Yeah. Guess who one of the two is. Steff?

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 03:00 PM) Grossman's injury alone didn't doom that offense. He only played 3 games (more like 2 3/4), it's not like that's enough evidence to determine whether or not the offense would have survived. It's not like he played great in those games either, with a 1/3 TD-INT ratio and only a 56% completion percentage. Hell, Hutchinson had a better passer rating. None of those teams exactly had stellar defenses either. It's hard to believe that he was merely a scapegoat if he didn't know his own offense. I do realize that 3 games is a small sample size, but from that sample size it was working. Jones was running, Grossman was passing and everything looked good offensively for the most part. You can blame Shea for Jonathan Quinn, but to me, there was other problems(mostly injuries) that caused the Bears to suck.

I would do it, but I don't know much about golf or the NHL. Honestly, I can't name more than 2 players on the Blackhawks right now.

I think Shea was a scapegoat for last year. When Grossman was in there and the offensive line was healthy, The Bears were top 10 in every offensive category. It's when Jonathan Quinn had to take the helm when everyone started going downwards.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 09:26 PM) Let's see now. Griffey has been injured EVERY YEAR of the last how many years?? Sure he's dodged the bullet this year, SO FAR. Does that mean he even makes it to October?? It seems to me you are betting the farm on a highly risky player. And I think Griffey has negative value in subsequent years because he is absorbing money we could spend on more reliable players. Remember Carlos Lee? Wouldn't you rather have him as the DH? Didn't we get rid of him because he was making $8 million/year? I'm not suggesting we reverse the trade for Pods, just that there may be hitters cheaper, but more reliable and a lot younger than Ken Griffey. But let's also look at the marginal value again. 1995 ALDS SEA NYY W 5 23 9 9 0 0 5 7 2 4 .391 .444 1.043 ALCS SEA CLE L 6 21 2 7 2 0 1 2 4 4 .333 .440 .571 1997 ALDS SEA BAL L 4 15 0 2 0 0 0 2 1 3 .133 .188 .133 In 1995, in the prime of his career 10 years ago, Ken Griffey had a great postseason. Then in 1997, when he was still a superstar, Ken Griffey laid an egg. 2 hits in 15 ABs. Remember what happened to Frank Thomas in 2000? MVP season. He and Maggs and Lee couldn't hit a lick in 3 games against Seattle. Griffey sounds sexy because he's a name. He was once good. But trading for such faded stars on their last legs is not the way to build a winning team year after year. It is certainly not worth giving up one of our top prospects. Baseball America lists Chris Young as our 6th best prospect. But he also rates as our best baserunner and best athlete. I'm willing to take my chances in the postseason with Carl Everett if we can't add a bat that costs a whole lot less risk than Ken Griffey. And I believe the Sox will still be kicking ass in 2008 with Chris Young in the outfield and Brandon McCarthy on the mound. Or just maybe, follow me here because it's a really really crazy theory. You ready? Okay. Maybe, just maybe, he's healthy. OMFG, I know. Crazy theory right??

QUOTE(Brian @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 07:44 PM) Did you guys know we almost had Griffey? Did you know Frank Thomas is out with an injury? He's likely out for the year according to Bruce Levine. We all know he has the news first on the Chicago White Sox.

QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 07:50 PM) Like my sig says, you can't really put too much trust into what the Spruce Bruce says. I hope not and I hope that Kenny Williams has bettered his ways of flying under the radar with his new sterness. I want Griffey Jr. bad.

Don't worry about it.

Was posted last week. Eh well. I love Farmer and Rooney.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 05:52 PM) Not at this juncture is a lot different than no. That could simply mean, that he hasn't cleared waivers yet so obviously its not going to happen. I'd think if he clears waivers, the Sox and Reds would once again talk. If they reached a deal once than Kenny will try again and hope that the Reds GM to convince management. Plus, we all know Kenny is the type of GM who gets his mind set on a guy or two and will continue doing all he can to work a move out. I think for the most part its a good thing. Thats not to say he doesn't have other plans, but he seems to prioritize things and if its a guy that he thinks is a best option, he'll work his total butt of to do all he can to make a deal happen. On a sidenote, when and where did Kenny say that quote? Nope man, like usually he would giggle or do something that would suggest he might look down the road at it, but he said something to the effect that Reds management didn't want to do it so he won't revisit it with a very stern look and stern voice. I'm sure they'll show it again on Comcast Sportsnite. That's where I saw it from. Like if you saw it, you would even say, "Griffey won't be inquired about anymore."

Kenny Williams actually ended this thread. They asked if a deal still could be done(waiver wire) and he said no or his exact words, "not at this juncture." PK seems happy.

Also, couldn't the White Sox just trade Young, the lower tier guy and a PTBNL and complete the trade in the offseason including Rogo?

That stinks. Okay, so when would a Griffey be put on the waiver wire?? And if the player could only be on waivers for 3 days, then why isn't the waiver deadline the first 3 days of August or August 16th?

WHY GOD WHY?!?!?!?!

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 04:06 PM) Upside wise, Young has more than any OFer in the Sox system and almost every other system for that matter. Not saying I wouldn't make the trade though cause I think a healthy Griffey makes this team a whole lot stronger. As far as touted, I've heard Sweeney and Anderson more than Young. Honestly, I didn't mind which one we gave up of the 3. I know they're all pretty good. Also, it would've helped the Sox alot because Griffey is a guy people would go buy tickets to go see on the Southside because he's still a marquee player and cope that with winning and you have butts in the seats.

SEPT 11 @ WAS - W SEPT 18 DETROIT - L SEPT 25 CINCINATTI - L OCT 9 @ CLEVELAND - W OCTOBER 16 MINNESOTA - L OCTOBER 23 BALTIMORE - W OCTOBER 30 @ DETROIT - L NOVEMBER 6 @ NEW ORLEANS - L NOVEMBER 13 SAN FRAN - W NOVEMBER 20 CAROLINA - W NOVEMBER 27 @ TAMPA - L DEC 4 GREEN BAY - L DEC 11 PITTSBURG - L DEC 18 ATLANTA - L DEC 25 @ GREEN BAY - W JAN 1 @ MINNESOTA - L 6-10 Record.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 03:41 PM) Based on this, what does the Reds $4.5 million contribution per year cover? I always thought his contract in the later years is more on the order of $18-19 million, but only $12.5 million of that was paid in current dollars, with the balance deferred. If that is true, would the Sox be taking on his current contract plus part of the deferred money (whatever exceeds $4.5 million/year), or $4.5 million/year LESS than his current contract and NONE of his deferred money? In either event, it seems like a deal the Sox were lucky to have blocked. Let's be real guys. The value of Griffey this year is the marginal difference between him and Carl Everett, who will presumably go to the bench if Griffey starts at DH in the ALDS. What is that worth? Something, but not all that much. Griffey has the worst zone rating of any major league CF while Rowand has one of the best, so Griffey is a serious defensive liability in the outfield at this point. So if we make it to the World Series, we will be weakening our defense to play him in the NL park. Griffey is still injury prone, so there is no assurance he would even stay healthy to make it to October this year. And for that marginal value, we are giving up a whole hell of a lot. 1. Money better spent on a healthy, younger player. 2. Chris Young, who is touted more highly than any outfield prospect we have, isn't he? Won't Chris Young be better than Ken Griffey is now soon after he makes our major league team? 3. Certainty. With Griffey's injury history, we'd have to go into every season with someone like Carl Everett backing him up in case he went down for the year. Sure, depth is fine, but that would get ridiculous, ala Cincy. Be thankful that the Griffey deal appears dead. 1)You seem wayyyyyyyyyy to caught up on any prospect. If the White Sox gave up their worst prospect in the system, you would say it was a bad move. I was kind of hoping Brandon McCarthy flat out was cut just so we wouldn't have to hear you make several threads about not trading him. We're trying to win now. This is arguably our best year in franchise history. Wen that's the case, you have to go for it. 2)Young is not touted more than Sweeney or Anderson. He's a very good prospect, but we have OF depth in the organization. Is Young going to help us win the World Series this year? No. Is he even going to help us next year? No. That's why you do the move. 3)Griffey would be playing DH most of the time with some stints in CF. Ozzie isn't that stupid and neither is Kenny. And Griffey is a way better hitter than Everett. He's less streaky and he also could hit from the left side which sadly Everett can't. 4)Who would you have more confidence in at the plate in the playoffs for getting a key hit. Griffey or Everett?? I'd certainly take Griffey any day. 5)Cincy would pay 4.5 million a year until his contract is up. We'd take care of the deferred part which is only about 4 million. 4 million usually isn't the difference between making the playoffs or not. I wouldn't care about the deferred part. I'm sure JR and the ownership doesn't mind that either. Almost all great hitters have deferred cash. Manny, Vlad Griffey. Even A-Rod had that before he got traded to NY. Deferred cash isn't a problem.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 03:00 PM) When I think Reds owner, I'm thinking crazy old impulsive rich man who doesn't really know his baseball team. If a guy is so out of touch with reality that he still thinks Griffey Jr is a PR bonus, he could change his mind very easily. It may be a matter of the GM taking the owner out for drinks in order to grease Jr's way out of town. In that you are still talking about the whole league minus the White Sox letting Ken Griffey go. I don't see that happen.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 02:52 PM) One thing to consider, the Reds owner isn't the baseball man. His Gm is, and seeing how a deal was in place, it's not beyond reason something could still work out. If their GM could convince him to trade Griffey [which hasn't exactly been a PR bonanza,] and now when he's finally healthy, trading him somehwere to DH makes sense, it may be the only chance to get rid of his contract. The GM wants to trade KGJ, because then it frees up money to spend elsewhere. But it's the owner's decision Exactly. The owner's decision. The owner is afraid of bad PR which is stupid considering that most Red fans know they have to part with Ken Griffey Jr. to get better. They also know they must get rid of Sean Casey. Their owner won't do it though in fear of public backlash. If you read the Reds' messageboards you can't pretty much see their owner isn't socializing with their fans enough because they want Griffey gone so they could spend on players. If they owner didn't do it the first time, I doubt he does it the 2nd time around.

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 01:25 PM) = no chance. As much as I hate you for killing my dreams of Ken Griffey Jr in a White Sox jersey, thanks for bringing in common sense. I know he won't be here anytime soon.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 01:01 PM) Over Honel’s last three starts, he’s pitched a total of 19 innings and given up only 13 hits and 5 earned runs to the tune of a 2.37 ERA. Honel has had only one bad start in the month of July, at Huntsville, where he gave up 8 earned runs in only 2 2/3 innings. Throwing out that start, he has had a 2.88 ERA for the month of July with a mere 19 hits allowed in 25 innings, including a start against a loaded Jacksonville lineup which did a lot for Honel’s confidence. Thanks for the info. Sounds good. Hopefully he continues over the year.

QUOTE(GBlum27 @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 12:50 PM) You know this how? QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 12:50 PM) How do you know that the Sox can't get Griffey. There's a good chance that he would clear waivers and KW has already shown a willingness to deal good prospects for him, the only thing blocking the deal would be the Cincy Ownership group. Why would you bring up Clemens adn Bonds, the Sox have a 1000000% higher chance of landing Griffey than either of those two what because we could of had them in Free Agency? s*** comparison. Because simply, there's every other team in the league that has to say no to Griffey before we even get a shot. Their owner Lindner(I think it is) basically didn't trade him from a PR standpoint. All Red fans feel that way and that basically the owner won't deal Griffey unless it's for a major league player back. The fans(Red Fans) personally think that it would just be better for them to get rid of Griffey, but if you read their board, they don't see it happening. They think there's a better shot moving Casey's contract. As far as Bonds and Clemens, I believe they made it known that they wanted to sign with the White Sox. Frank wanted Belle here over Bonds IIRC and Schueler thought Clemens was washed up so he didn't sign him. I honestly think there was a waaaaaaay better chance of those two signings happening over Griffey clearing waivers over every team in the majors to get to us.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Aug 3, 2005 -> 12:48 PM) Thanks Kalapse and 2k5....all this "Put Aaron in left and Griffey in CF"is moot... Yeah, cas this deal isn't happening.

Wait, why are we talking about this? This deal didn't get done and I know it won't. Sad I know, but I hate having to talk about guys we could've had. Especially my 2nd favorite player ever. I mean if we talk about Griffey, we might as well talk about Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds(both guys we could've had).