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Funny thing about cubs is they are the only team to ever get good again on young players and also only team model to ever have success.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 12:03 PM) I may be in the minority here, but I'll happily take a pitcher like Glasnow if I'm also getting two high caliber offensive prospects like Bell & Newman. I don't buy this "you can never have too much pitching" mindset, but I think there's room for one more prospect with TOR potential. The key is you have to get some bats back, even if you don't get an untouchable like Meadows included in the deal. People are talking about Meadows/bell not being included so Newman being top offensive piece.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 11:58 AM) So you'd be overturning your rotation once a year then? Come on man, if Kopech is destroying AAA next year and throwing 100 you're going to be happy with him being put in the bullpen? Hell I could write my post complaining about it already. Kopech was in A ball last year and has a lot of command refinement. Likely 2017 breakdown with suggested glasnow/keller/newman/4th trade AAA Giolito Glasnow Fullmer Lopez Danish AA Adams Kopech Keller Stevens A Dunning

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 11:35 AM) I really don't think this matters to me - if he's the 3rd piece, he could be a good player but this still doesn't work out. There can't be more than 1 starting pitcher out of the top 2 guys and I'm skeptical we have room for that. I get there's a clog, but Keller is a high A ball player in 2017. And I'm not sure I'd want our scouts to specifically take players they like less but would fit better in a trade like this. And the third piece is, again, a top 40 prospect, top 20 position player prospect. Get Hayes as well and that's a top 3b prospect. It's hard to find trades where more is sent.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 11:30 AM) I agree that lack of pitching has been a major problem in this organization, but I can't help but feel we've loaded up on pitching already, to the point that if we're not getting position players back as the key ingredients there's no reason to make this deal. Glasnow + Keller + 2 other guys might be fair return on total talent, but we simply can't start this many pitchers. I would obviously prefer packages with Meadows/bell, but have to reiterate that Newman is not just some guy.

So if I were to get a two-day pass does that get entry into the sessions with Hahn, etc? I can't remember if certain ones are allowed only for STH

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 10:57 AM) Is this just using ERA? Because in 2009 the Sox were 2nd in the AL in ERA. But the Sox are first in pitching WAR from 2005-2016 (still first by more than 10 WAR even excluding 2005). The real problem is that they're dead last by a lot (and it's embarrassing how much worse it has been than the other teams, the gap is that big) in defense in the AL since 2005, which of course has made the pitching look a lot worse than it has been. Yes, thanks for catch. Just using this: http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/league/al

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 10:23 AM) Which are also the years we were most competitive over the last decade. And if all of those years of middling pitching had an actual dominant pitching staff I wonder where we would be. Of course, in 2005, we saw a pitching staff tied for cleveland in the AL lead, and bottom 3rd in offense. Dominance in anything helps to be competitive. Although oddly enough did not realize mariners finished top 3 in era and runs scored in AL last year.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 10:05 AM) I would love to see what our offensive rankings during this period (last ten years) were. Funny enough while we had more dead last rankings we also had 3 top 5 finishes in the AL for runs scored. 2006, 2008, 2012.

So, I know I've said this 100 times, but I just really would prefer to not have 3 rebuilding teams at once. The Bulls are not going to win a championship this year. But watching weekday bulls games with competent teams is entertainment I can live with for now. Basically, if we actually add a real point guard I'll be happy for this year, as we slowly wade into the deep ocean with concrete boots on.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 09:48 AM) Lack of pitching has been just as instrumental to the Sox failures as lack of hitting. The bullpen situation has been an absolute travesty and that has everything to do with not having enough minor league pitching. I agree that the headliner ideally would be a top, top position player prospect but one thing I will never say after enduring the likes of Ronald Belasario and Hector Noesi in major roles is that the Sox have too much pitching on the farm. The last time the White Sox ranked top 5 in pitching in the AL was 2005.

Newman is probably a top 40 but comfortably top 50 prospect in the game. There is an astonishing depth of SS, but safe to say he is a top 10 ss prospect. He has a 70 hit tool. So, basically I'm saying let's stop acting as if a top 40 prospect is soxtalk's new favorite descriptor "a throw-in".

Yep, we "sold high" on a closer for once (at the time) only to use him for a pitching prospect from blue jays already showing decline. Brutal.

I know we've been on a long and winding road, but I feel certain this week it gets done. It sounds like we have multiple offers, now we see who will get in counter offer game and then finalize.

Not sure we should go in freak out mode the guy said multiple times he didn't know players involved.

That's why I'm a fan of the Fangio prevent defense

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 10:30 AM) I agree that market conditions might drive a better deal for the White Sox, but Mercedes sell well even amidst competitors. A better market for pitching is not going to displace the type of value Q provides irregardless of a more liquid market. My point is that the cubs do not really make sense as a suitor when we are talking about he prices we are. All of the actual teams rumored have a need for Q this year, they have urgency. The cubs need for q is justified for giving them low cost starter for the years 2018-19-20. But that would only be a smart move if Quintana was being sold off at a discount. At the full cost of prospects for Q, it makes way more sense for cubs to just wait a year and figure it out then. They certainly wouldn't trade off Baez just to smooth their pitching out in two years.

So there will be a lot more pitching available next year. Cubs do not need or are desperate to have Quintana this year. The reason q will get a haul is because of the favorable market. There's no pressure for cubs to pull trigger on trade that big. Has nothing to do with Hahn getting over trading with the cubs.

We were rumored around him last year too so I'd guess someone likes him.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 10:59 PM) Wonder what that means for Eddy Alvarez. Would have thought he was looking at the SS job in Charlotte. It means next to nothing. Cabrera may not even get out of spring training.

Enjoy Charlotte

We wouldn't get Simmons but Bryan Colangelo is the new philly GM so a drumbeat trade we could do well in is definitely possible. But I also just do not want Forman to trade butler. If next group does, okay, but Forman should not get that attempt.

Honestly that makes me feel better seeing that list. That then was our farm when we began our rebuild with trades for two position players and one Intl FA signing and stopped rebuilding after that.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 06:43 PM) Right now with Jose Quintana still on the White Sox the only AL rotation that I can safely say the Astros are 100% better than is Minnesota. If you can make a counter argument to that I'd like to hear it. The only pitcher of theirs I have confidence in from a health standpoint is Colin McHugh (who isn't very good). None of their offseason acquisitions are that impressive. What makes Josh Reddick better than Melky Cabrera when the Sox signed Melky two years ago? How easily can you picture an alternate reality where Kenny Williams goes ALL IN again by signing Beltran and trading for McCann? I'm not gonna talk too much s*** about Gurriel and Bregman. Those are not bad players to be plugging in to patch holes and are much, much better options than McCann and Beltran. Last year with Chris Sale the white Sox starting pitchers were worse than houstons in runs per game. http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/...-pitching.shtml

I think we kinda moved past this but, again, merkin not saying Tucker would never be included, he was just participating in speculation.