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QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 10:57 AM) Is this just using ERA? Because in 2009 the Sox were 2nd in the AL in ERA. But the Sox are first in pitching WAR from 2005-2016 (still first by more than 10 WAR even excluding 2005). The real problem is that they're dead last by a lot (and it's embarrassing how much worse it has been than the other teams, the gap is that big) in defense in the AL since 2005, which of course has made the pitching look a lot worse than it has been. Yes, thanks for catch. Just using this: http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/league/al

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 10:23 AM) Which are also the years we were most competitive over the last decade. And if all of those years of middling pitching had an actual dominant pitching staff I wonder where we would be. Of course, in 2005, we saw a pitching staff tied for cleveland in the AL lead, and bottom 3rd in offense. Dominance in anything helps to be competitive. Although oddly enough did not realize mariners finished top 3 in era and runs scored in AL last year.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 10:05 AM) I would love to see what our offensive rankings during this period (last ten years) were. Funny enough while we had more dead last rankings we also had 3 top 5 finishes in the AL for runs scored. 2006, 2008, 2012.

So, I know I've said this 100 times, but I just really would prefer to not have 3 rebuilding teams at once. The Bulls are not going to win a championship this year. But watching weekday bulls games with competent teams is entertainment I can live with for now. Basically, if we actually add a real point guard I'll be happy for this year, as we slowly wade into the deep ocean with concrete boots on.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 09:48 AM) Lack of pitching has been just as instrumental to the Sox failures as lack of hitting. The bullpen situation has been an absolute travesty and that has everything to do with not having enough minor league pitching. I agree that the headliner ideally would be a top, top position player prospect but one thing I will never say after enduring the likes of Ronald Belasario and Hector Noesi in major roles is that the Sox have too much pitching on the farm. The last time the White Sox ranked top 5 in pitching in the AL was 2005.

Newman is probably a top 40 but comfortably top 50 prospect in the game. There is an astonishing depth of SS, but safe to say he is a top 10 ss prospect. He has a 70 hit tool. So, basically I'm saying let's stop acting as if a top 40 prospect is soxtalk's new favorite descriptor "a throw-in".

Yep, we "sold high" on a closer for once (at the time) only to use him for a pitching prospect from blue jays already showing decline. Brutal.

I know we've been on a long and winding road, but I feel certain this week it gets done. It sounds like we have multiple offers, now we see who will get in counter offer game and then finalize.

Not sure we should go in freak out mode the guy said multiple times he didn't know players involved.

That's why I'm a fan of the Fangio prevent defense

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 8, 2017 -> 10:30 AM) I agree that market conditions might drive a better deal for the White Sox, but Mercedes sell well even amidst competitors. A better market for pitching is not going to displace the type of value Q provides irregardless of a more liquid market. My point is that the cubs do not really make sense as a suitor when we are talking about he prices we are. All of the actual teams rumored have a need for Q this year, they have urgency. The cubs need for q is justified for giving them low cost starter for the years 2018-19-20. But that would only be a smart move if Quintana was being sold off at a discount. At the full cost of prospects for Q, it makes way more sense for cubs to just wait a year and figure it out then. They certainly wouldn't trade off Baez just to smooth their pitching out in two years.

So there will be a lot more pitching available next year. Cubs do not need or are desperate to have Quintana this year. The reason q will get a haul is because of the favorable market. There's no pressure for cubs to pull trigger on trade that big. Has nothing to do with Hahn getting over trading with the cubs.

We were rumored around him last year too so I'd guess someone likes him.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 10:59 PM) Wonder what that means for Eddy Alvarez. Would have thought he was looking at the SS job in Charlotte. It means next to nothing. Cabrera may not even get out of spring training.

Enjoy Charlotte

We wouldn't get Simmons but Bryan Colangelo is the new philly GM so a drumbeat trade we could do well in is definitely possible. But I also just do not want Forman to trade butler. If next group does, okay, but Forman should not get that attempt.

Honestly that makes me feel better seeing that list. That then was our farm when we began our rebuild with trades for two position players and one Intl FA signing and stopped rebuilding after that.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 06:43 PM) Right now with Jose Quintana still on the White Sox the only AL rotation that I can safely say the Astros are 100% better than is Minnesota. If you can make a counter argument to that I'd like to hear it. The only pitcher of theirs I have confidence in from a health standpoint is Colin McHugh (who isn't very good). None of their offseason acquisitions are that impressive. What makes Josh Reddick better than Melky Cabrera when the Sox signed Melky two years ago? How easily can you picture an alternate reality where Kenny Williams goes ALL IN again by signing Beltran and trading for McCann? I'm not gonna talk too much s*** about Gurriel and Bregman. Those are not bad players to be plugging in to patch holes and are much, much better options than McCann and Beltran. Last year with Chris Sale the white Sox starting pitchers were worse than houstons in runs per game. http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/...-pitching.shtml

I think we kinda moved past this but, again, merkin not saying Tucker would never be included, he was just participating in speculation.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 04:48 PM) Where did you see that at? You guys really lose stuff in telephone game. Barstooldave hypothesized martes tucker paulino fisher stubbs Merkin replied no tucker People asked why He said he heard "astros were really high on tucker" That doesn't mean astros are refusing to trade tucker, it means that when throwing out proposed trades, merkin isn't guessing tucker himself because he's heard they like him a lot.

I'm gonna guess donald trump's financial ties would not be included, just a hunch.

QUOTE (SoxSteve @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 04:27 PM) And who would have thought we get Giolito and Lopez + for Eaton. And Moncada and Kopich were unachable. The Astro's talk can only help the possibility of a better deal wih another team. I thought we were getting Robles, Lopez, + for eaton so I don't think it was as out of left field as most thought.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 04:04 PM) Did he also catch that Angels game where Rodon ate like 7 ER while only getting 2 outs? Carlos has had some hard luck games where his catcher hasn't done him any favors, but he's had some games where he has been a straight up batting tee. I dont blame the catcher when the ball is intercepted on its way from the mound to the catcher's mitt by the swinging bat of some hulking slugger and deposited 430 feet away into someone's nachos. No I think the Angels game was this year. I think at this point its set that Narvaez is his personal catcher, as Balta said, based off of what I've heard in Garfein's podcast.

I love what the Mariners are doing. Reminds me of old kenny williams before our pro scouting tanked, getting a lot of chances on proven mlb'ers with question marks for your own mlbers with question marks.

So Hickman at this point, do we think he starts in extended spring training or can he get pushed to kannapolis? Also the thing I'd say about Hickman is I think he could make it in any situation, whereas guys like Eddy Alvarez need specific circumstances to get a chance. He'll be a 28 year old, slap hitting rookie who just happens to have phenomenal plate coverage. Look no further than Narvaez for how that skill can suddenly catapult you if given the chance.