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I am probably in minority but I preferred Belli over Korver because of his ability to pick up dribble and drive. It was just too pathetic when Korver tried to get a layup.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 09:05 PM) If his star player didn't want to be undermined he shouldn't have needed 2x as long in-between games as guys in the NFL need for the same injury. Well, luckily for you Gar Forman planned for that and signed Kirk Hinrich to a 2 year deal!

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 09:00 PM) I can't because I don't know how someone can be "100% certain" that something "probably" didn't happen. Apparently your opinion is that Gar Foreman spends all day looking at porn. I'm not going to kill him over not completing a deal when they didn't have the assets to do it. Cute! No I think he spends all day undermining his coach and star player.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 09:54 PM) What does this even mean? Guess.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 09:45 PM) Saying we lack a sharpshooter is false. Whether Dunleavy is Kerr is another question -- though I'm not convinced that looking at the raw 3P% is all that useful. Dunleavy = sharpshooter. He has filled a role that we really need. Agree. I wouldn't mind seeing him on the Bulls, but I wouldn't move heaven and earth to do so. Saw plenty of him in Memphis We don't lack a sharpshooter we lack general 3pt shooting. We had Korver, but when you only have one, it's easy to neutralize that. YOu have to have f'd up on defense to leave him open. We really need Butler and Rose to start hitting higher 3pt percentages.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 09:14 PM) Taj Gibson wasn't an "expiring contract", he was a guy still on a rookie deal that was due an extension. He offered zero value for clearing money off your ledger since his salary was still only $2.15 million. He doesn't really count as "cheap talent" either since he was due an extension that was signed/announced 3 days after the Harden trade. Mirotic and the 'Cats pick are both pieces that are a fair amount down the road, and there's no guarantee that Mirotic would even sign with OKC. It also would have been problematic for them since they'd have to stay under the tax in order to bring him over. Neither of those pieces would be available to the Thunder until at least 2014/15. That doesn't have as much value as a 2012 lottery pick that was already on your roster and a 2013 lottery pick. Neither of us have any idea as to whether or not the Deng Warriors deal was even on the table. I seriously doubt it was, though I can't prove it. I think Mirotic is valuable as an asset that you aren't paying for, however. That's where 3 team deals come from. The bulls had assets that may not have been perfect for OKC but may have worked for other teams. Sometimes 4 teams get involved. Last year for instance, Dwight Howard was traded to Lakers despite them not having the pieces Orlando wanted. This doesn't really prove that bulls couldn't have gotten Harden. Maybe not straight up they couldn't have, but I can say with 100% certainty bulls probably never called despite that being a GREAT compliment to Rose. Maybe our offer loses but you at least try and work a deal or bring in a 3rd team. That stuff leaks out, we would have heard Bulls tried. And as per this: Neither of us have any idea as to whether or not the Deng Warriors deal was even on the table. I seriously doubt it was, though I can't prove it. I agree it wasn't on the table because I doubt the Bulls called.

I hate OJ Mayo. OJ Mayo is one of those weird soxtalk loves like Rudy Fernandez.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 07:56 PM) How was the #12 pick in this draft "worthless"? Two lottery picks is pretty good, though the Toronto pick ended up lower than they thought. They were looking for both immediate and future help. Kevin Martin was a huge part of that deal because he was an EXPIRING CONTRACT and replaced a lot of Harden's scoring off the bench. The Bulls did not have an expiring contract, so they couldn't just "make it work". If they had to take back someone like Taj or Deng that still had years left on the deal, they might as well just keep Harden. If they were going to move Harden (which I wouldn't have), the only way you could have beat it was with a proven producer on a rookie contract like Klay Thompson. The Bulls didn't have that either. I'm fairly certain Taj was expiring at the time. You also have Mirotic who would be attractive because he is not on the books, and the bobcats draft pick. Would that have been enough? I don't know, but perhaps you could have traded deng for the warriors pick to really sweeten the deal. Rose-Butler/Harden-Boozer-Noah is formidable to say the least.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 08:37 PM) (who, by the way, was coming off a particuarly bad Finals and who certainly wasn't a definite star at the time of the trade). Even if this were true, which it wasn't, it just means that would have been the perfect time to figure this out.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 08:24 PM) The story I've always heard on the Kobe trade is that Kobe didn't think the Bulls were worth coming to without Deng and the Lakers didn't think the Bulls were worth trading with unless they received Deng in the trade. Anywho, most of the time star players are traded, they become the only star on their team. Carmelo forces his way to NY, becomes THE star. Don't give me Amar'e bulls***, either. Harden to Houston, only star. Deron Williams to Brooklyn, only star (still is IMO). CP3 to Clips, only star. Howard was the one exception, but with the commonality that he forced his way out of his current situation. Joe Johnson is almost an exception, except he's not really a star but wanted to be treated like one. We were never going to give him $20M a year so that seems like a deal best left undone. When you have one of they very best players in the NBA already on your roster, everything else gets more complicated for both basketball and financial reasons. We are not going to bring a guy onto the Bulls that will become their best player. We cannot bring anyone onto the Bulls that earns more than their best player. We can't trade for a star player that plays the same position as our star. These are complications. The Knicks had just given Amare a huge contract, he absolutely was the second star on their team. His back obviously crapped out but he was having a ridiculous season to that point. You can also just as easily state that CP3 was going to the Lakers, and he would not have been only star. And your last paragraph, I don't think any of that is actually true. If we did some weird 3 way deal with boston and dallas where Dirk ended up a Bull, pretty sure Dirk would make more than Rose. I don't think any of that would matter. (And in this case, dirk is an expiring contract and Garpax can have their 2014 spree where we land Lebron!) Taj and Jimmy are both pretty good assets right now. Deng with an expiring asset as well. Also, could have used our trade exception for Robinson, but I guess we'll just let that expire. Why make team better when you can just be?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 07:45 PM) First of all...the role of the "He" in this discussion changed a couple years ago. I'm not sure if that even registered. Secondly...I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what deal he missed out on. Harden was the best response and even then the Bulls couldn't offer salary cap relief. Are y'all jealous that we didn't get Joe Johnson or something like that? No the role of he did not. And to answer your question, he's missed out on every trade. And every trade yet to be conceived. And this board will rationalize it for this and that, meanwhile some team with real management will have worked out their salary via trading assets and salarys to smart teams taking advantage and dumb teams trying to stay relevant. And we will psyche ourselves into how a starting lineup of rose butler snell mirotic and noah could really pull a fast one on the (new super team)

Has Kyle Long been able to do anything with the team yet? I also wrote Jake when I started this post. It's going to be hard to keep the Long's in order this year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 07:38 PM) You're kidding, so the problem is that the GM of a basketball team isn't loud enough while announcing which possibly traded players he might be involved in? No the problem is he makes plans for 3 years in advance to sign a player to a max contract, continually misses, and continually has blinders on to anything else that may improve the team besides mid level contracts to vets to fill out the roster year in and year out. The lakers know everyone is available to them at any time because they are the lakers. It's a lesson the bulls should learn if they want to become talented enough to win the title and not merely well-coached.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 06:30 PM) The only player mentioned so far that would have worked in a basketball sense is Harden. Since the Thunder were trying to get out of salary hell, it is very unclear to me how we could have made that work better than Houston did. We didn't have a Kevin Martin or a Doron Lamb, and I'm not sure if our Charlotte pick would have been enticing since it is likely to be deferred fairly far into the future. Sometimes teams can seem to get trades done out of sheer force of will (Lakers and Howard, CP3 and Clips), but we had legitimate competition for Harden and I can't believe we could have matched what Houston offered, not to mention -- is it possible OKC wasn't eager to further bolster a team that was already a title contender? We were never in running for Harden, I doubt we ever called. The point is 50% roughly of stars that have moved in past 5-6 years have been traded, half thru free agency. When you consistently are only going to make plans for free agency you are removing options from the table. And I would love to see evidence that bulls actually call other GMs about trades because I haven't seen it. IT seemed like Forman didn't even know Dwight Howard was getting traded until reporters were calling him to make sure he was involved, because he's a GM with a basketball team.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 07:03 PM) I'm happy to admit that if there was a legit trade for a star available in the late 2000's that the Bulls didn't take advantage of because they wanted to hold onto Deng, they made a mistake. But other than that, look how the NBA has gone over the past few years. What stars have been traded? Dwight Howard forced a trade and that was a disaster for the trading team. They're likely now to wind up with jack squat. CP3 was traded, but the Bulls really don't need a point guard. Pau Gasol was traded for scraps, but everyone paying attention knows that 2/3 of the league would have come up with better offers than the Lakers if given the chance to do so. Beyond that, the main movement of the last few years was the Heat being assembled and the Celtics being assembled. The Bulls didn't have the assets for Garnett when he finally was dealt, and the Heat assembly was BS backoom "the league is too hard" crap anyway. It's not like the Bulls can look out there and think "Man we missed out on such a great trade". The things the bulls have missed out on have been dominated by backroom, league-fixing BS. You are missing a few trades. But the fact that CP3 is a PG is irrelevant. There are more star PGs now than regular players. In that time frame, Carmelo Anthony was also traded, as well as Deron Williams. While he may have taken a hit in popularity I think it's fair to say that was a blockbuster when it happened. Harden, also, was traded. And then you have your other tiers of players moving now. Your thomas robinsons trading for nothing (bulls nowhere in sight), Eric Gordon will get traded (granted, we won't be able to make this work). Players are constantly available. Trades happen often in NBA. And regardless of whether Howard worked out for LA, they really didn't have many assets to get him and still landed him. WHen you look around the league, players seem to be moving to teams, to me, that shouldn't be able to do that, all the time. When was the last bulls trade that actually netted them a player they expected to use, and wasn't just salary dump? Our FO doesn't seem to be aware that players are available for trades. They are never teams "in the discussion".

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 05:49 PM) Great. I'd love to see a reasonable way to make the salaries work to bring a player to the Bulls who could put them over the top. The best talk around the draft was Deng for a draft pick or every asset the Bulls have for LaMarcus Aldridge. He's a good player but he's not going to put them over the top if they're not there already. I get that, but so far our only ideas for past 15 years have revolved around getting a star in free agency. It hasn't happened and is even less likely in 2014 than it was in 2010, where we have very little leverage to add your #2.

Do you guys remember how Asik became such a worthless player with more playing time on the Rockets because all year teams just fouled him non-stop to get him to the free throw line? Yeah, me neither.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 05:31 PM) So what is the answer? Trade Rose and rebuild, wait 3 years until someone helps the Bulls out Gasol-style, or go to the internet and complain that management needs replaced? I would like to see the Bulls try and trade for a player. Maybe once they have done this, we won't have to waste our time with these stupid "2010 plan" "2014" plan and try and sign a max player with no leverage.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 05:43 PM) How about statistics? Over the last few years Luol Deng played in 211 of a possible 230 games, good for 91.7%. The three years previous to Thibs he played in 182 of a possible for 246 games equaling out to 73.9% of games. Who is to say that Thibs superior conditioning program isn't keeping Deng on the floor more often? I've actually thought about this quite a bit. I don't know what to think about it, b/c it could just be luck. But boozer too, suddenly healthy in his life.

This is horrible: http://espn.go.com/boston/nhl/story/_/id/9...nley-cup-finals There has got to be a way to discourage this reckless behavior. Players want to play, fans want to see players play, but nobody wants to see someone die on the ice.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 05:51 PM) Chase is the one that would never outright say it. Not me. He'd always be vague and say, "everything was there". I agree with you guys that that's probably what he was going for with this, but the way it was done broke from how the ENTIRE rest of the series was filmed, and he did that for the reason I stated. Just in case they wanted to continue they could...and if they didn't, this worked, too. You usually don't just decide, 'ok for this ONE scene, i'm making the viewer THAT character' via a spur of the moment/convienent perspective change. If it was something you did throughout the show, it'd be a different story...there'd be continuity there. It was a complete break from how everything else was done on the show, for the convenience of not having to show it. And then of course, quotes from him saying "never say never" about a movie/continuation, or that if everyone was on board he'd do it, that says it all to me. Of course, this will never happen now, but it was left open ended at the time on purpose. If that was his plan all along, he should have riddled the show with similar sequences, and not from random characters, but ONLY Tony. That said, interpretation is open, because not everyone agrees with this. Did you ever see the professional? Suddenly the films in first person as he walks away and gets shot in the back of the head. It was a great scene.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 06:52 PM) Is it just me or does the Bulls bench right now seem to be very weak ? Belinelli, Robinson leaving for greener pastures, Nazr Mohammed old , Hinrich effective floor leader and defender but can't stay healthy ,Snell and Murphy who, if both make the team will be lucky to see many minutes, Teague who is pretty young but upside not incredibly high. Butler gone from bench and now a starter, Taj Gibson pretty solid on both ends but not great at any one thing. Dunleavy may or may not be as good as Belinelli. Anyone else from last years bench hardly worth a mention. Is this a fair assessment and if so what, if anything, are the Bulls looking to do about it ? This was also the case last year and bench once again turned into a strength. One thing, Deng pretty much plays all game, so you'd have Hinrich (Teague?) at PG, Dunleavy at 2, deng at 3, Taj at 4 and nazr at 5. Taj is a great defender, great, and could be a starter in the league elsewhere. So yeah, it's not great, but it isn't awful. What makes a lot nervous is no backup for Noah, and so he might get run into the ground.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 06:03 PM) Even when they are good, it's never consistent. I think it carries the interest more even when one team is winning. But when nobody is talking about either team...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 05:38 PM) They literally have nothing else to report on right now. They won the cup a week ago, they can rehash the same s***ty story on effort and TWTW and I'd still read that.

I'm a little more concerned about baseball in Chicago in general. WHen was the last year both teams were terrible? I straight up haven't heard a conversation about baseball this summer while on the train or at bars. There is complete apathy over both teams. And I can't even claim I'm apart from it. I've had a really difficult time watching this year, even though I've been to 5 games. I haven't watched on tv at all really.