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QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 08:37 PM) (who, by the way, was coming off a particuarly bad Finals and who certainly wasn't a definite star at the time of the trade). Even if this were true, which it wasn't, it just means that would have been the perfect time to figure this out.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 08:24 PM) The story I've always heard on the Kobe trade is that Kobe didn't think the Bulls were worth coming to without Deng and the Lakers didn't think the Bulls were worth trading with unless they received Deng in the trade. Anywho, most of the time star players are traded, they become the only star on their team. Carmelo forces his way to NY, becomes THE star. Don't give me Amar'e bulls***, either. Harden to Houston, only star. Deron Williams to Brooklyn, only star (still is IMO). CP3 to Clips, only star. Howard was the one exception, but with the commonality that he forced his way out of his current situation. Joe Johnson is almost an exception, except he's not really a star but wanted to be treated like one. We were never going to give him $20M a year so that seems like a deal best left undone. When you have one of they very best players in the NBA already on your roster, everything else gets more complicated for both basketball and financial reasons. We are not going to bring a guy onto the Bulls that will become their best player. We cannot bring anyone onto the Bulls that earns more than their best player. We can't trade for a star player that plays the same position as our star. These are complications. The Knicks had just given Amare a huge contract, he absolutely was the second star on their team. His back obviously crapped out but he was having a ridiculous season to that point. You can also just as easily state that CP3 was going to the Lakers, and he would not have been only star. And your last paragraph, I don't think any of that is actually true. If we did some weird 3 way deal with boston and dallas where Dirk ended up a Bull, pretty sure Dirk would make more than Rose. I don't think any of that would matter. (And in this case, dirk is an expiring contract and Garpax can have their 2014 spree where we land Lebron!) Taj and Jimmy are both pretty good assets right now. Deng with an expiring asset as well. Also, could have used our trade exception for Robinson, but I guess we'll just let that expire. Why make team better when you can just be?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 07:45 PM) First of all...the role of the "He" in this discussion changed a couple years ago. I'm not sure if that even registered. Secondly...I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what deal he missed out on. Harden was the best response and even then the Bulls couldn't offer salary cap relief. Are y'all jealous that we didn't get Joe Johnson or something like that? No the role of he did not. And to answer your question, he's missed out on every trade. And every trade yet to be conceived. And this board will rationalize it for this and that, meanwhile some team with real management will have worked out their salary via trading assets and salarys to smart teams taking advantage and dumb teams trying to stay relevant. And we will psyche ourselves into how a starting lineup of rose butler snell mirotic and noah could really pull a fast one on the (new super team)

Has Kyle Long been able to do anything with the team yet? I also wrote Jake when I started this post. It's going to be hard to keep the Long's in order this year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 07:38 PM) You're kidding, so the problem is that the GM of a basketball team isn't loud enough while announcing which possibly traded players he might be involved in? No the problem is he makes plans for 3 years in advance to sign a player to a max contract, continually misses, and continually has blinders on to anything else that may improve the team besides mid level contracts to vets to fill out the roster year in and year out. The lakers know everyone is available to them at any time because they are the lakers. It's a lesson the bulls should learn if they want to become talented enough to win the title and not merely well-coached.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 06:30 PM) The only player mentioned so far that would have worked in a basketball sense is Harden. Since the Thunder were trying to get out of salary hell, it is very unclear to me how we could have made that work better than Houston did. We didn't have a Kevin Martin or a Doron Lamb, and I'm not sure if our Charlotte pick would have been enticing since it is likely to be deferred fairly far into the future. Sometimes teams can seem to get trades done out of sheer force of will (Lakers and Howard, CP3 and Clips), but we had legitimate competition for Harden and I can't believe we could have matched what Houston offered, not to mention -- is it possible OKC wasn't eager to further bolster a team that was already a title contender? We were never in running for Harden, I doubt we ever called. The point is 50% roughly of stars that have moved in past 5-6 years have been traded, half thru free agency. When you consistently are only going to make plans for free agency you are removing options from the table. And I would love to see evidence that bulls actually call other GMs about trades because I haven't seen it. IT seemed like Forman didn't even know Dwight Howard was getting traded until reporters were calling him to make sure he was involved, because he's a GM with a basketball team.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 07:03 PM) I'm happy to admit that if there was a legit trade for a star available in the late 2000's that the Bulls didn't take advantage of because they wanted to hold onto Deng, they made a mistake. But other than that, look how the NBA has gone over the past few years. What stars have been traded? Dwight Howard forced a trade and that was a disaster for the trading team. They're likely now to wind up with jack squat. CP3 was traded, but the Bulls really don't need a point guard. Pau Gasol was traded for scraps, but everyone paying attention knows that 2/3 of the league would have come up with better offers than the Lakers if given the chance to do so. Beyond that, the main movement of the last few years was the Heat being assembled and the Celtics being assembled. The Bulls didn't have the assets for Garnett when he finally was dealt, and the Heat assembly was BS backoom "the league is too hard" crap anyway. It's not like the Bulls can look out there and think "Man we missed out on such a great trade". The things the bulls have missed out on have been dominated by backroom, league-fixing BS. You are missing a few trades. But the fact that CP3 is a PG is irrelevant. There are more star PGs now than regular players. In that time frame, Carmelo Anthony was also traded, as well as Deron Williams. While he may have taken a hit in popularity I think it's fair to say that was a blockbuster when it happened. Harden, also, was traded. And then you have your other tiers of players moving now. Your thomas robinsons trading for nothing (bulls nowhere in sight), Eric Gordon will get traded (granted, we won't be able to make this work). Players are constantly available. Trades happen often in NBA. And regardless of whether Howard worked out for LA, they really didn't have many assets to get him and still landed him. WHen you look around the league, players seem to be moving to teams, to me, that shouldn't be able to do that, all the time. When was the last bulls trade that actually netted them a player they expected to use, and wasn't just salary dump? Our FO doesn't seem to be aware that players are available for trades. They are never teams "in the discussion".

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 05:49 PM) Great. I'd love to see a reasonable way to make the salaries work to bring a player to the Bulls who could put them over the top. The best talk around the draft was Deng for a draft pick or every asset the Bulls have for LaMarcus Aldridge. He's a good player but he's not going to put them over the top if they're not there already. I get that, but so far our only ideas for past 15 years have revolved around getting a star in free agency. It hasn't happened and is even less likely in 2014 than it was in 2010, where we have very little leverage to add your #2.

Do you guys remember how Asik became such a worthless player with more playing time on the Rockets because all year teams just fouled him non-stop to get him to the free throw line? Yeah, me neither.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 05:31 PM) So what is the answer? Trade Rose and rebuild, wait 3 years until someone helps the Bulls out Gasol-style, or go to the internet and complain that management needs replaced? I would like to see the Bulls try and trade for a player. Maybe once they have done this, we won't have to waste our time with these stupid "2010 plan" "2014" plan and try and sign a max player with no leverage.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 05:43 PM) How about statistics? Over the last few years Luol Deng played in 211 of a possible 230 games, good for 91.7%. The three years previous to Thibs he played in 182 of a possible for 246 games equaling out to 73.9% of games. Who is to say that Thibs superior conditioning program isn't keeping Deng on the floor more often? I've actually thought about this quite a bit. I don't know what to think about it, b/c it could just be luck. But boozer too, suddenly healthy in his life.

This is horrible: http://espn.go.com/boston/nhl/story/_/id/9...nley-cup-finals There has got to be a way to discourage this reckless behavior. Players want to play, fans want to see players play, but nobody wants to see someone die on the ice.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 05:51 PM) Chase is the one that would never outright say it. Not me. He'd always be vague and say, "everything was there". I agree with you guys that that's probably what he was going for with this, but the way it was done broke from how the ENTIRE rest of the series was filmed, and he did that for the reason I stated. Just in case they wanted to continue they could...and if they didn't, this worked, too. You usually don't just decide, 'ok for this ONE scene, i'm making the viewer THAT character' via a spur of the moment/convienent perspective change. If it was something you did throughout the show, it'd be a different story...there'd be continuity there. It was a complete break from how everything else was done on the show, for the convenience of not having to show it. And then of course, quotes from him saying "never say never" about a movie/continuation, or that if everyone was on board he'd do it, that says it all to me. Of course, this will never happen now, but it was left open ended at the time on purpose. If that was his plan all along, he should have riddled the show with similar sequences, and not from random characters, but ONLY Tony. That said, interpretation is open, because not everyone agrees with this. Did you ever see the professional? Suddenly the films in first person as he walks away and gets shot in the back of the head. It was a great scene.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 06:52 PM) Is it just me or does the Bulls bench right now seem to be very weak ? Belinelli, Robinson leaving for greener pastures, Nazr Mohammed old , Hinrich effective floor leader and defender but can't stay healthy ,Snell and Murphy who, if both make the team will be lucky to see many minutes, Teague who is pretty young but upside not incredibly high. Butler gone from bench and now a starter, Taj Gibson pretty solid on both ends but not great at any one thing. Dunleavy may or may not be as good as Belinelli. Anyone else from last years bench hardly worth a mention. Is this a fair assessment and if so what, if anything, are the Bulls looking to do about it ? This was also the case last year and bench once again turned into a strength. One thing, Deng pretty much plays all game, so you'd have Hinrich (Teague?) at PG, Dunleavy at 2, deng at 3, Taj at 4 and nazr at 5. Taj is a great defender, great, and could be a starter in the league elsewhere. So yeah, it's not great, but it isn't awful. What makes a lot nervous is no backup for Noah, and so he might get run into the ground.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 06:03 PM) Even when they are good, it's never consistent. I think it carries the interest more even when one team is winning. But when nobody is talking about either team...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 05:38 PM) They literally have nothing else to report on right now. They won the cup a week ago, they can rehash the same s***ty story on effort and TWTW and I'd still read that.

I'm a little more concerned about baseball in Chicago in general. WHen was the last year both teams were terrible? I straight up haven't heard a conversation about baseball this summer while on the train or at bars. There is complete apathy over both teams. And I can't even claim I'm apart from it. I've had a really difficult time watching this year, even though I've been to 5 games. I haven't watched on tv at all really.

I feel like Chicago media has been framing this offseason already as "it's 2010 all over again!". On ESPN Chicago the only headline has been Bolland and Frolik getting traded and nothing on Bickell staying. For my money, our first line forward who had a great playoffs and is young, re-signing with the team is a bit more important than the end of our inspiring yet oft-injured Bolland and Frolik, who was finally relevant through special teams. And now there's a huge story on how Stalberg will test free agency. I thought Stalberg should have played games 1-2 in cup finals, but, this is the type of turnover you can expect in hockey year after year. It's not 2010.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 03:56 PM) I think Korver is getting the same price. Would rather have him than Dunleavy. Also, considering the amount of interest in Korver, I would be surprised if he gets the same price as Dunleavy.

Korver's better 3pt% isn't enough for me. I didn't like having such a one dimensional player. Dunleavy is better at d. Korver pros - top 5 3pt Shooter, fairly good rebounder. Korver cons - can't defend, can't pick up the dribble, turns ball over He can only shoot, and stand at the 3pt line.

I don't understand how Monta Ellis could be signed to Bulls. And I don't seeing amnestying/trading anyone. The bulls don't know how to trade, I am not sure they know that it exists.

Did they just say frolik was traded to Winnipeg?

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 29, 2013 -> 07:47 PM) Former Cuse sharpshooter, and last years D-League 3 point champ, Andy Rautine in Bulls camp. Could be someone to keep an eye on. Rose/Hinrich/Teague Butler/Rautine Deng/Snell Boozer/Taj/Murphy Noah/Mini MLE/trade exception Something like that could work. Luke Harongody is in camp as well but I dont see a spot for him. That depth is terrible. Well get some vets on league min like last year.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 28, 2013 -> 09:54 PM) I believe that's what I said. 1. He was considered a raw athlete. 2. He was not a finished product. 3. Did not focus on baseball. Thus considered a high ceiling low floor daft prospect. No one what they were getting so he had a big potential to bust but could also be a great player. he wasn't responding to you i don't think.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 28, 2013 -> 09:10 PM) I love the guy but he did get a little annoying at some points last night. I thought he was funny at times but the constant bringing everything back to the Celtics trade was stupid. Yeah, but too be fair, the dismantling of the celtics happened while BILL SIMMONS was on the air. come on! Who would've expected that.