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QUOTE (sircaffey @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 08:50 PM) Right. I don't think it's so much the defense of other legit PF/C as much as it is the rebounding/interior. The Bulls were in the series against the Heat largely due to them being a vastly superior team on the boards and at interior defense. It also creates a problem with Wade and James getting to the hoop when Asik and Noah basically have no one to worry about. I would be very worried if the Heat got a legit C because it would take away the main and exploitable advantage the Bulls have over the Heat. A 33 year old Shane Battier? Not so much. We weren't in the series, we lost 4-1. Haslem completely stabilized their big problem.

GMs shouldn't crowd source their decisions.

QUOTE (That funky motion @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 08:36 PM) Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard Don't think NYK out of CP3 Hunt if it gets Ty Chandler. Ty & CP r close friends. Most likely, Amare would hit trade market. honestly can say i didn't see that coming.

QUOTE (SnB @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 04:56 AM) The leonard tap out rebound is awesome. Disagree, it started to work in the last ten minutes, but for the first 30 his refusal to go up strong and pull it down caused quite a few rebounds to go the other way. He's the biggest man on the court, bring it down.

That's right, I forgot about the auction.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 06:58 PM) Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard Multiple sources confirm @KBergCBS report that NYK making strong run at Ty Chandler..would have to amnesty Billups This would be a nightmare. The Knicks would basically hand the Heat Billups... their new PG and a gunner from 3 point range. kill me.

Battier signed for the minimum? I'd be more scared if the Heat added more legit PF/C depth...but to be honest, Battier is a championship team type player. He's a fantastic defender on the perimeter on a team of fantastic perimeter defenders. And in the east...is there any PF/C you really need to worry about? Amare and Howard...but those teams are just not that worrisome to the heat, i'd imagine. Sigh. This sucks.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 05:41 PM) I think you folks should ask yourself a question... what kind of rebuild do you want? What Kenny appears to be going for... I think... is a 2-3 year timeline. That's what it looks like. He's asking for near-ready talent. The alternative to that is, you tear the whole damn thing down, and start building from the very bottom, up. But here is the catch - as enticing as that idea might seem, you have to look at history, and acknowledge that teams who attempt to go that cheap and young, typically don't create a contender in 2-3 years. They end up mired in for 5, or 10, or more years. Which do you want? I'm thinking Kenny is trying to do an Indians rebuild.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 12:06 AM) Unless we are signing a 30-year mortgage like the Pirates...ughhh. That thought literally terrifies me.

hilarious.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 10:38 PM) If you follow professional sports at all, there usually is ONE reason & ONE reason only why players make decisions during free agency. Mark signing with the Marlins proves that point once again. So what? The man gave us reasonable contracts before, and doesn't want to play on a rebuilding team. Another team is throwing money at him. That doesn't make him immoral to take the best deal.

Since I've started the White Sox like a real diehard fan, he's been there. I wish him the best of luck. He deserves the money. He deserves the sunlight. I wish him the absolute best!

good government: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/credit-card...owbeforeyouowe/

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:53 PM) I'm usually pretty skeptical on Mizzou because they seem to start fast and finish slow. I guess we will see. So...they are like every team that has to go play in a tough basketball conference. Gotcha.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:16 PM) I didn't say anything like that. Look at the post I was responding to again. You went on a rant about the state of the center position, the current free agent market and Gasol that was very similar to what Simmons wrote in the article. You made it sound like all of these things are indisputable facts when they're not. It's an opinion piece that may or may not end up being any more valid than anything you or I have written. Who cares?

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 08:00 PM) What exactly is ridiculous about it? The idea that just because the great Bill Simmons says that Marc Gasol is worth/is going to get a max contract doesn't mean it's absolutely going to happen and not a stupid idea at all? No, because it was a pointless statement. Are all of your estimations of contracts worthless, because they are predictions? Should we stick to consistently speaking about what has happened, as to avoid the highly dubious nature of speaking about the future? I think we should make rules about talking about the bulls upcoming season, lest we start bordering on conjecture.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 07:32 PM) The premise of the article is predicting things that haven't happened yet, so its validity is highly questionable. This center with "a legitimate all-around offensive game" also scored a whopping 1.6 more points than Chandler last year in more minutes. He's only been in the league for three years so that's not much of a history of being "remarkably healthy". And "center" has become a highly flexible term when guys like Amare and Andrea Bargnani are playing there. You could also argue fairly convincingly that Nene is just as good as Gasol, so it's not a "Gasol or nothing" proposition. Let's also keep in mind that a max offer to Gasol is 4-73. Yeah, that's $18.575 million a year on average. 2. Marc Gasol Prediction: Re-signs with Memphis (five years, $78 million) Verdict: PROPERLY PAID This is the estimation you are all gaffawing about.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 07:32 PM) The premise of the article is predicting things that haven't happened yet, so its validity is highly questionable. I'm not even going to read beyond this ridiculous sentence.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 07:20 PM) For fun stuff, there's not one central place you have to drive to. For example, in Chicago, generally it's downtown and some spots on the north side. No. But nonetheless, the difference is you have to drive to all those places in LA. And I can't tell you how much I hate that. Being in a city with good public transport means more than just "it has good public transport", it reflects the way the city is built.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 07:59 PM) You really seem to like the "this guy is overpaid so Gasol should be even more overpaid" argument, and for some reason you seem to like bringing up good perimeter players that can score a lot more in comparisons too. $11 million is a far cry from the $16 million+ average that you're giving Gasol. Tyson is also a much better rebounder and defender than Gasol as he proved this year. That $11 million is probably what Gasol is "worth". Paying a guy like him more than that is why we just had a lockout (not that it seems to have mattered). There are at least a dozen big men that can give you as much or more than Gasol does, probably more. Giving non-elite players a max contract is how you hurt your team. Also, 69 games is still a pretty damn big sample size, and he still played about 32 MPG (roughly normal for big men). PER is also a rate stat, which wouldn't be affected. I'm following the non-fantasy land argument. The market sets the rate, and the market is going to go after these players. And the premise of the article was that there is a center bubble, that centers are getting more money than they already have. If there is a bidding war for centers, what do you think will happen in the NBA, with some owners that want to win now? Do you really think an owner that wants to win now won't pay big money to get the best center available, can you ever think of examples of owners paying more than players are worth? Gasol is by far the best option. No s*** that Tyson Chandler is a great defensive player, but he's also an injury prone defensive-only player. He can get alley-oops. He can get a put back. He cannot do anything else offensively. And he's getting paid a lot of money for one side of the court. Now you have a center with a legitimate all-around offensive game and good D that's 7'1", young and has stayed remarkably healthy for a center. And he's a free agent. And he's a center (x3). If all centers are getting a higher rate because of the rarity of their skills, then the best center in a market run by billionaire fans is going to get paid, and paid well.

In a smaller sample size with less minutes. You are just ignoring the point that we have a league where tyson chandler was given 6 for 64 when he was injury prone and has no real offensive game. Centers get paid a lot of money. Add to that teams looking to add size, an increased salary floor, and one of the few centers with an offensive game and knees and a back that haven't broken every season, and you will see a team pay him a lot. Remember ... rudy gay is making the maximum.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 06:12 PM) I think you're overrating Gasol a fair amount. He averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds last year with solid but not spectacular defense. Since when is 12-7 worth a max contract? There aren't THAT few quality big men out there that his contributions are more rare than a player that can shoot, score 20 points a game, and distribute the ball with reasonable efficiency. He's also a very good passer, is only 26, with a good injury history and has gotten better every year.

Watched last night. Our passing was an absolute thing of beauty. And mizzou was offensive rebounding like crazy. Everytime I think the lack of size will come into effect, they just fight harder and overcome it. And... Ricardo ratliff has made something like 30 of his last 32 shots.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 06:13 PM) Meh, Joe Johnson is probably a #2 on a contender, though he's coming off a pretty bad year. The bigger problem with him is it was his second contract, so his "max" is more like $20 million a year than $15 million. I disagree. There are so many more players that can get you Joe Johnson production than can get you Gasol production.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 04:43 PM) There have never been enough centers to go around to make everyone in the league happy. That doesn't mean throwing a truckload of money at a guy that isn't better than a #3 on a contender (Strangely enough, Simmons says that in the same article while concluding that he's worth a max deal. huh?) is the right answer. It's never been the right answer, but it goes to show the league isn't far from the one that just paid joe johnson a max. I'd put gasol at more worthy of a max than JJ.