bmags

Yes, exactly, they are all more productive than Madrigal and you can sign them for 1 year deals and go to the next average offensive second baseman on the market.

He may be as productive as Kolten wong...and kolten wong was just cut. There just never seems to be an issue finding a second baseman that can produce the kind of numbers you are discussing. Last year, there was Schoop, Cesar Hernandez that were easily available. Wong, La Stella, Gregorious, DJ all available this year. I'm also not saying cut madrigal, but if he gets you a piece elsewhere, I'm going to drive him to the airport, and will likely have to escort him all the way to the gate.

I agree that I don't like buying control, and I could see woodruff becoming a #1 before Marquez. That said...pitchers are weird and unreliable, and if I could trade a kopech and cease to get a Marquez I do it 10/10. And if I have to trade a vaughn, I would have to be at mid-season with some certainty in the team's needs at that point. The problem with the cubs wasn't quintana. It was that they needed a quintana because all of their high priced acquisitions were not adding value while the rest of their cheap core was, and then they started producing when their core dropped off. It happens and as much as I laugh at it, it was a bit unlucky and probably should have worked better than it did. If the white sox trade for a woodruff, sign a Quintana, a top line (hendricks, treinan, colome) reliever and George springer, they have time to use draft + international to build up that depth, meanwhile have much higher certainty of production in 2021 which is really really valuable.

so they aren't just going to select a mark bartelstein client?

DJ Lemahieu is 6'4, 215 Kolten Wong is short, but 20 pounds heavier. But most importantly, in 1400 PAs in the minors, Kolten Wong hit 33 home runs. In 1400 PAs for Nick Madrigal in college + minors, he hit 12 home runs. So, it was definitely feasible that Kolten Wong's 1 homer per every 44 PA pace would net him 10-12 home runs in the future in tougher competition. 550 PAs would net you that. Nick Madrigal averages a homer every 116 PAs. Sure enough, in 109 PAs this year he had 0 home runs for the white sox. That would put him around 4 a year. So Nick is smaller than those guys or has hit for less power than those guys at similar levels, and does not have the frame to get meaningfully bigger. This is why it's unlikely he'll be a 10+ home run hitter.

not groundbreaking and reads like speculation because Moderna was the other mRNA vaccine. But thought worth sharing.

Same, and madrigal would be like, exactly the same issue the rest of their offense has. Just remarkable lack of power in tha tlineup.

Yep, he took it over after his dad died, and has made losing elections in illinois his personal calling for what feels like my entire life. He did make it to a state senate seat, but has failed over and over getting to a federal level (or real state level) edit: to be clear though he really did turn oberweis into what it is today, but he didn't start it.

man the internet sucks.

Lauren Underwood now up by 3,500 votes, after her opponent tried to declare victory on election night before mail-ins had been counted.

Do you know how many phase 3 studies get 40k+ participants? Do you know how often the pulled drugs are maintenance drugs or others that require constant usage? Pfizer had already been guaranteed purchases, and the cost of the vaccine to americans will be free.

I find this hard to believe, and the assumption should be this is not the case until we find out it is. Not vice versa.

The rox trading marquez to start over for a bunch of volatile, arb-clock-started pitching prospects makes little sense. I know that's the rockies brand, but, if they say "we are trading german marquez to best suitor" then a tampa bay that can trump us left and right. Pads/Minny would jump in.

Man, trying to engage in a Marquez trade is tough. I see the rationale. Rockies have 7 spots to fill and are at roughly $135 million. They have been leapfrogged by the Padres for 2nd. Their pitching is good but their hitting is abysmal and they have some good but not sure-thing hitting prospects coming up. They are in that tough spot where they are likely to be bad even if they try to be good. However, Marquez is very good and also very cheap for the next 4 seasons. If I'm reading B-R right, he has a 2.5 mil team option in 2024 (can turn into a mutual option, not sure how). I've been really nervous paying for cheap control with pitchers on trades just because of injuries and how expensive it is. So I think he could be available, but given Rodgers is now a 2b...how is this deal done without a Vaughn? That is a reasonable deal across parties. But if that happens, you'd hope it happens because RF has gone from tread water to springer for next 5 years.

Congrats!

we'll see what happens now that the thirsty soxtalk fanbase has caught on.

Yes, you do tend to bring it into those threads but it has been manageable which is why I said it was false.

Ideally J&J drops soon. But the big thing here is this super high efficacy. If J&J shows something even like 60% effective plus (ideally) some proof of lesser symptoms, you could prioritize the high risk population (medical workers, factory workers, elderly) with the mRNA vaccines while general pop get the single dose.

I don't know, the shortened season was proving the 2nd half of 2019 where he turned it on.

With McCullers I have to imagine that means hes a "Add a pitcher in FA + McCullers". He has been incredibly consistent, but his IP through the years has been low usually hovering around 20-25 Games Started.

I think this is the right attitude on potentially good info people discussing incredibly preliminary plans in general. Even if it's fake - did it add a new interesting player to discuss? If so, then it's good. We've run through the ringer on bauer, stroman, joc, woodruff. Darvish and bullpen pieces are fun new topics for me.

I was against closing the buster because I thought everywhere would become the buster without it. That was false, and now I'm firmly on the no buster side, but to be clear this will be chisoxfn's call regardless. And since he was right the first time, i'll trust him.

honestly it wasn't that different before Trump.

I think this is true, but I also don't think it's worth discounting. My thought with madrigal was that his reported incredible baseball IQ would raise the impact of his other skills. It's not just in the majors where he has had an issue with running into outs. I think it may just be adjusting to game speed, but it isn't something I expected needing to be adjusted. But the real question is position value. The difference in cost between a cost controlled second baseman and FA one has to be the smallest of any position in the game. The whole idea that "getting a 2 WAR player for 7 years is huge value" just seems crazy to me when Jose Iglesias keeps doing what he does for sub $5 mill and very little demand. So if there is a chance of getting an impact player back and the cost is Madrigal, and it means we have to go sign a Kolten Wong, it's hard to see how the white sox would not be much better. And the other side of this, is its really hard to take the pro-madrigal people seriously when the only thing they keep harping on is comparing him to hall of fame players from 50-70 years ago. It shouldn't be that hard, and the recent similar players have had...much less impact.

This thread was handled very well for a while, thanks to all who participated. Figuring out how much vote is left and where it's likely to go is always fun to watch when others have a good idea of it, and quite a few in here were. I get the sentiment for a larger political forum again. As an active participant in the previous one, I am still not sold. The benefit of election time is getting a lot of quick feedback on a lot of opinions and discussions. But for most of the year, it is a very slow moving process. When there is no real news, it just ends up commenting on the commentors. And when the forum is just adding hot takes to politician hot takes, it gets nasty and battle lines drawn. Now I will slowly back away into the bushes before my seething filibuster hot takes return.