Rowand44

A plain bagel with Lox and Cream Cheese is one of my favorite things in the world.

Meh, I predict a win considering they've won/lost/won/lost in that pattern for like the last 6-8 games.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 01:01 PM) I can't seem to copy their stat lines over from ESPN, but Brazoban's ERA was 5.33 over 72 innings with 6 blown saves, 32 walks, and a WHIP of 1.40. Broxton's line was worse: 13 innings, 5.93 ERA, 12 walks, 1.83 WHIP, 1 blown save. Luis Vizcaino, by comparison, pitched 70 innings, posted a 3.73 ERA, walked 29 guys with a WHIP of 1.47, and blew only 3 saves. So other than the fact that you think these guys arms are great, it looks like Vizcaino performed quite a bit better than both last year. Sure, Brazoban and Broxton are both quite a bit younger than Vizcaino, but that may or may translate into performance next year or beyond. I'd rather have a 6-deep dominant rotation than to be worried all year that we're screwed if any of our starters go down. Especially with 3 of them putting in extra innings in the World Baseball Classic. (Remember Buehrle's foot injury at the end of spring training last year? Luckily, it wasn't anything.) Brazoban has proven he can be dominate in the majors, I think a lot of his problems came from having to close last year. Also, you're looking at quite a sample size with Broxton.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 12:43 PM) Ok lets presume Kenny wants two relievers in a deal: Elbert or another prospect from the Dodgers, Broxton, and Brazoban. Brazoban is a major leaguer reliever that started to really struggle late last year, however he did notch 22 saves and has a power arm. Broxton is a converted reliever who was called up late last season and has a power arm and a good slider. Elbert is an A ball rookie thats on par with Gio Gonzalez. Not a bad looking deal cause the Sox can slide Brazoban and Broxton into the back of there pen and let the two develop. Plus you have a shot at letting Tracey compete. Would this not be a fair enough deal? To be honest, I actually like that deal. Get two dynamite arms for this year and then get a guy who should be ready by the time we actually need another sp(assuming JC is signed to an extension)

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 12:42 PM) Yes, I do. But none in 2005 unfortunately. Why do you ask? Because if you do then your helping supply money to the owners who pay these players. The players are only paid that much money because they help bring it in. What I'm saying is if you don't think they should be paid all that money then you shouldn't be attending games. Anyways, that's my last word on this subject, I'll drop it so I don't hijack this damn thread any longer.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 12:41 PM) ahh, lets not go down that road I didn't mean anything by it, I'm just saying that could be a reason he's not like Tony is because they werent with each other a lot.

Rondell can play when healthy, not a bad move for the Twins.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 12:22 PM) How can his son be SO much different than his father. No one is always like their dad or hell really want to be like their dad. But this kid looks like he is 100% opposite of everything that Tony Dungy is. Tony on the road a lot could have something to do with that.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 12:32 PM) I'm a believer of putting in as many good arms as you can because you always have guys get hurt or guys that end up having a down year. That way if you have more talented guys the odds of more of them panning out are greater. When it comes to relievers they tend to be more inconsistent so its nice to have plenty of options. Plus Jenks hasn't exactly been up for an extended period of time and he has had arm troubles. If he stays heatlhy I'm confident in him. That's fair and I understand what you're saying. IMO the Cotts-Jenks setup to closer combo has the potential to be one of the best in the league, I don't even worry about those two to be honest. Dustin I still think will be fine IF healthy which is obviously a huge if. I have confidence in Cliff cause he just learned to go straight after hitters last year instead of messing around, he's got to drop that damn 2 seamer from his repetoire though. I also love Tracey's prospects from the pen and everyone here knows how I feel about Brandon. That being said I would definitely love to add another damn good reliever or two if at all possible.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 12:28 PM) The Twins pen helped them get 3 consecutive division titles and the Indians pen helped get them close (had it not stunk right at the beginning of the season theyd' have been in better shape). I'm not sure I see why your so down on the pen right now. We have 4 very talented guys in there right now if you include Brandon, one who can be very solid if healthy, and imo a prospect that is a perfect fit for the pen in Tracey. I would like to see Kenny add another reliever or two if possible but our pen certainly isnt in bad shape imo.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:53 AM) Well then you are just as greedy. Same goes for Rowand44. I understand what you guys are saying but can't players just be humble for a minute? And I do agree, it is a 2-way street but it doesn't eliminate the fact that athletes are way overpaid. Do you go to Sox games SF1?

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:45 AM) BS...the organization is the one paying the millions for his ass to play and have a nice lifestlye, not the other way around. Did Jon Garland not help this organization make millions last year? If we dont have Jon Garland last year are we winning the world series?? Anyway you look at this, it's a two way street. Your basis of argument here seems to be that you believe athletes are paid to much, well that's fine and dandy but that's the way it is so get used to it.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:41 AM) This is not the case. We cant assume that. But if this was the case, I tell him to stop joking around. He's already made enough money of my ass. I'm sure he can "survive" with what he's made already. See: Frank Thomas So in other words, players need to stay loyal to the organization but the organization doesn't need to stay loyal to the player. Ok..ya.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:36 AM) God damn are athletes spoiled. No loyalty. People are out there making 20 grand a year trying to pay for a family of 5 while these 20 year old are out there making millions and crying for more. f*** Jon Garland. f*** Latrell Spreewell. f*** Joe Crede. God damn greedy bastards. All these athletes piss me off. Why don't they want to play in the olympics? Why dont they want to play in the World Championships? Because they don't get payed for it. Come back to the real world you greedy bastards. What some players make in 1 inning, my mom makes in 1 year. :headshake Let me ask you something: If Garland was 38 years old, and was putting up an era around 5, he then asks the Sox to pay him 8 mill a year because he's been loyal to the organization. You would want the Sox to do what? EDIT: And if you feel this way stop watching sports. Athletes make a lot of money and you've known that forever so just deal with it.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:30 AM) I was kidding, really. These guys can leave if they want. The team will survive without them. Sorry about that then, all the clever nicknames around here get on my nerves.

QUOTE(WinninUgly @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:26 AM) So AJ siging a 3yr $15 million contract to stay with the Sox is not loyalty, when Ramon Hernandez signs a $27.5 million, four-year contract? Chipper Jones restructured his contract to lower his salary. It happens all the time. There is always someone to blame. It doesn't just happen and both sides wake up and go "Oh darn we are really in a difficult situation". Jon has always made comments on how he would like to pitch on the left coast, closer to home. He just never had the leverage to do anything about it because he was not a hot commodity. The Sox stayed with him for all those 12-12 years with 4.50 ERA's. What do they get in return? This situation. So I have to put the blame in Jon's court. I understand he is due a fair contract, but he can easily be a one year wonder since that is all he has done in his career. Ok...let me rephrase that: When a young pitcher is entering his prime after coming off an 18 win season, he's just not going to sign an extension out of loyalty. Likewise, a team isn't going to re-sign a 37 year old dh out of loyalty, it's just bad business. You're right though, there are players who will stay loyal to a team but not in this situation is what I'm trying to say.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:20 AM) Thanks for the WS, Jon. Now, see you in Hell. Joe Crede's new nickname, if this is to be believed, can be Joe Greedy. Oh, horray, he graduated from Cruddy and Crediocre. :rolly

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:19 AM) So then what was that display that PK showed??? That he wanted to stay here. This was the place he wanted to be, Jon obviously wants to be on the west coast with his family. When the difference in money is 5 mill then there is a good shot the player will just choose to play where he wants to be and not just follow the money. Now, Jon wants to play on the west coast and he can make atleast an extra 25 mill in free agency, from his perspective why would he sign an extension right now?

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:16 AM) Loyalty and comarodory must not mean much to Jon. Those things don't exist in baseball anymore, period. You can't blame either side for what they want and have to do in this situation.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:07 AM) Here are mine: Garland will be traded to a west coast team by late January, after all the free agent pitching is settled. That would be my guess as well.

QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:57 AM) I told him.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:53 AM) See you amatuers don't realize if you delete or merge the thread right away, they just post another one. The key is to give them a second to see this, and then merge away. And you want to be my latex salesman :headshake Blah, blah, blah. Excuses for everything. :headshake

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:48 AM) TRY HERE INSTEAD Can you change the title or get rid of this thread all together? Damn, admins do nothing around here.

This thread title is very misleading and this is already being talked about in Sox Trade Winds.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:37 AM) So the Rays just got Burroughs for absolutely nothing? Interesting. The Padres would want to be rid of Burroughs that badly? They re-signed Brazelton.