Rowand44

Rincon warming up, I don't care how good Rincon is(and he's good) I just want santana out of this game.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 07:57 PM) I posted that ahead of you but you know how long it takes to send from down here.

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 07:55 PM) Is it just me or does Santana seem to have a little bit better strike zone than Buehrle?? Not that I am tying to make any excuse for Buehrle or anything because he hasn't really pitch great thus far but I have seen a few pitched Buehrle has placed almost exactly where Santana is putting them and not getting the same calls on them...just wondering if anyone else has seen this. Jester, there is no doubt but you got to get around that stuff sometimes.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 07:55 PM) What's Santana's and Buerhle's pitch counts? To slow aussie

Anyone know what Johan's pitch count is at??

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 07:50 PM) Well they at least know what pitch to hit and try to drive it. Most hitters get contact on the pitch they want. Sox are whiffing on everything. Want the change one pitch and end up swinging on a fastball. Want a fastball the next pitch and swing on a changeup away. I can guarantee you most of the sox hitters are trying to sit on the fastball but the motion on his changeup is so perfect. A lot of our hitters see his changeup as a fastball coming out of the hand and then......POOF it's gone.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 07:47 PM) Why the hell can't anyway decide what pitch they want to hit??? It's simply changeup or fastball. Pick it, look for it and wait for it to be in the strike zone. It ain't that fricken easy, you should tell the rest of the league that also.

Santana's in a groove we're either going to have to get his pitch count up and get him out of the game or we're done for this game.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 04:46 PM) No it tells me he ran out of gas because he was taken out after a 93 pc w a 7-4 lead. If he does that tonight I'm confident the WSox will win. And considering he's hovered around a 90 pc his last 4 starts I'm not really surprised. You know what Juggs, I hope you're right. Lets do this Mark.

Yeesh, I forgot this was the game thread, sorry about hijacking the thread. GO SOX

QUOTE(MoreCowbell @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 04:17 PM) I agree with what all you've said that he has been excellent so far, but you're not accounting for the wear that an entire season as a starting pitcher can put on the guy. What I think Juggs is trying to say (and what I am trying to say, for sure) is that the guy will probably be good again, but most likely will not have another Cy Young caliber season this year. Alright, that's fair. I don't think he's going to have a season like he did last year because well that was ridiculous but imo he's perfectly capable of winning another cy young but what you said is certainly a valid opinion

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 04:10 PM) Let's settle this the easiest way. It's game 7 of the WS at Yankee stadium. You can pick any arm you want to start the game. List your top 10 choices: 1-Johnson 2-Schilling 3-Clemens 4-Beckett 5-Schmidt 6-Hudson 7-Buehrle 8-Sheets 9-Pedro 10-Santana And this proves what?? If you're asking where I'd put Johan in a list probably somewhere in the top 3 with Randy and Curt.

QUOTE(MoreCowbell @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 04:06 PM) I'm going to agree with Juggs here. Santana needs to prove himself again this season before we consider him an elite pitcher. We had a guy on our staff (Loaiza) last year that many were ready to give elite status to because of his outstanding season the year before. Now he's garbage. Santana looked unbeatable last year, but things happen year to year. Let's see a month of baseball to decide just how good the competition is! Once again, it wasn't just one season he was great in 02 and 03 also. EDIT: He split 02 and 03 between starting and relieving here are his starting stats. 02: 74.2 innings pitched, 89 k's, 3.13 era. In 03: 110.1 innings pitched, 109 k's, 2.86 era.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 03:57 PM) It amazes me how some people are treating Santana. Halladay accomplished just as much & where is he now? He's still a good pitcher but he's never recaptured his Cy Young form. Santana's had one good year as a starting pitcher. He's had only 4 great months as a Cy Young pitcher. Before that he didn't even have enough innings to qualify as a front-line starter. To consider him in the same venue as Johnson is ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned he's a 4 month wonder who won the Cy Young. He'll have to prove it this year to convince me he's anything close to Johnson. You love crunching numbers so much look at his stats in 02 and 03, the guy was always good and Minny never gave him a shot to start for a full year, he got that chance and ran with it, he's a great pitcher and I don't understand how you can think otherwise.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 03:48 PM) Why is it ridiculous? A Cy Young form implies the best in the league. Where is Santana's history that he's been able to keep that form more than 1/2 a season? He's got more than enough starts under his belt now to determine if he's going to be consistently great or occasionally great. Pedro is another pitcher that comes to mind that has yet to prove to any one he can be consistently great. I see Santana & I think of Pedro. BTW did you look at his pc (93)? Kind of odd for a guy who gives up 4ER in the 1st & then shutsout a team for the next 4 innings. Why not let him pitch another inning? Could it be he ran out of gas? The score was 7-4 at the time. Not a typical situation were you would yank your starter after the 5th. He's not invulnerable & he may not be long lasting either. Riiiight, so you're trying to prove to me that Johan isn't that great by comparing him to Pedro?? What history would you like to see, last year was the first year he was a full time starter and he was coming off surgery during the offseason and you're going to use that to base it on him not being in cy young form, whatever.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 03:30 PM) For anyone watching the game, it's the top of the tenth -- and tell me that Carlos Lee doesn't go hard into second base. He prevented Walker by turning that, he absolutely took out Walker... Haha, I knew this thread was coming.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 03:11 PM) Without question it's C Lee. I witnessed his talent as a CubKilla in person both at the Cell & at Wrigley. I will always think of Carlos when they play the chi-town series. A jugger post without numbers

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 02:41 PM) That tells me he's lost some of his Cy Young form & it might take him 1/2 a season to figure it out again. He had one bad stinkin inning and he's lost his cy young form, I don't think so. Now, I'm not saying Johan is going to be as good as he was last year because he was unhittable last year but for you to come to that conclusion after 1 bad inning is ridiculous.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 10:15 AM) We need to worry about the Indians and Tigers just as much as we need to worry about the Twins. We'll have our hands full, believe me. I disagree 100 percent but that's why they play the games

And Mientkiewicz just doubled.

QUOTE(Hall of Famer @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 12:58 PM) What channel is this game on? TBS.

Actually I have to bump graffy down to 2nd. Singleton was my favorite player when he was here, he just slipped my mind when I was thinking of ex sox players.

Not to mention if you turn on the game you get to hear Chip Carey

QUOTE(Soxnbears01 @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 12:07 PM) is graffy still with the royals? Yup.

Frank was unbelievable and still is awesome. Hopefully he gets back to full strength and can be a major factor, in the mean time Carl's playing great baseball and because of that Frank can be 100 percent before he comes back.