Wong & Owens

Ok, from 2001-2003, Nomar hit 35 doubles on the road, and 61 at home. Over that same stretch, he hit 31 HR's at home, but only 25 on the road. If he's hit more HR's at Fenway than all other parks combined, then having that giant wall hasn't hurt those totals as much as you think. Also, he hit almost DOUBLE as many doubles at home than while travelling. I think he loses a ton of those, and doesn't pick up anything at all in the HR dept. The only way to get that OPS up is to take more walks, and as we know, he ain't too fond of that.

Sorry, I'm technically deficient. This better?

If he gains patience as he is now 30 AND his wrist is healthy, he is a 975-1000 OPS player; if he doesn't, he is closer to what he was last year- a 875 OPS'er.**BUT ARE THESE NUMBERS ONLY TRUE IF HE GETS TO PLAY 1/2 HIS GAMES AT FENWAY? METHINKS SO. AT THE CELL FOR 81 GAMES, HE'LL BE AN .800-.850 GUY AT BEST.

That's why the trade was contingent on being able to sign him to an extension. And anyway I'd rather have one year of Nomar than five of Odalis Perez.**AN EXTENSION AT $10 MILLION A YEAR? THERE'S NO WAY THE SOX WOULD DO THAT, AND NO WAY HE'S WORTH THAT, UNLESS HE CAN SHOW THAT HIS ROAD NUMBERS OVER THE LAST 3 YEARS WERE A FLUKE. How can you say, "Yes, they're 'inflated' for pitchers, so what?" when you based your whole argument to that point on devauling Nomar's numbers at Fenway. **NO, NOT EXCLUSIVELY. I USE HIS NUMBERS AWAY FROM FENWAY TO ESTIMATE HIS WORTH. PEREZ AT 3.5 MILLION A YEAR IS BETTER THAN NOMAR AT 10 MIL A YEAR, IF NOMAR CONTINUES HIS PACE OF CRAPPY HITTING AWAY FROM FENWAY. SOME OF OF ODALIS' NUMBERS CAN ALSO BE MORE ACCEPTABLY ATTRIBUTED TO HIS AGE, AS HE IS ONLY 27(IT USUSALLY TAKES PITCHERS LONGER THAN HITTERS TO " PUT IT TOGETHER." 27 IS MUCH YOUNGER FOR A PITCHER THAN A POSITION PLAYER). NOMAR IS 30? 31? AND HAS PLAYED HIS WHOLE CAREER WITH ONE TEAM.

PLease, they polled 2,000 kids, but where did they find those kids? Was it a fair representation of the various backgrounds and moral codes throughout the country? Doubt it. The survey was conducted by the National Campaign to Protect Teen Pregnancy, so I also doubt the questions were asked in a completely objective atmosphere either. What a garbage survey, IMO. Says nothing.

Nomar would only fill seats for about 2 weeks. After that, if the team isn't in contention, Ramon backwards isn't going to have the slightest effect on attendance.

Yes, they're "inflated" for pitchers, so what? Nomar is a free agent(I believe) at the end of the year, and unless he has an all-time career terrible year, he'll command as much money as Maggs. If the Sox won't pony up the dough for a career .300-30-100 guy at the Cell, why would they give it to someone who I fear would consistently put up .270-20-75, playing in Chicago? They'll lose him after one season, and get a few measly draft picks for him. Perez and Mota are both signed for awhile(exactly why Evans HAS to trade Perez, and hesitates to include Mota in on deals), and the prospects could help restock our somewhat depleted farm system. Lefty starters are ALWAYS a commodity, and prospects can ALWAYS be used as trade chips.

U.S. Cellular, from left to right: 330-377-400-372-335 Fenway: 315-379-420-380-302

Am I the only one here that would rather have the Sox get L.A. pitchers than keep Nomar? Take a look at Nomar's home/road splits since 2001: At bats: Home- 689; Road- 687 Hits: Home- 236; Road- 183 2B's: Home- 61; Road- 35 Avg.: Home- .343; Road- .266 OBP: Home- .384; Road- .314 OPS: Home- .970; Road- .773 I have big time concerns that, away from Fenway, Nomar ain't a $10 mil-a-year or so player.

Cubs trade for Barrett The Associated Press December 16, 2003, 3:20 PM CST The Cubs today acquired catcher Michael Barrett from the Oakland Athletics for a player to be named later. Oakland acquired Barrett in a trade with Montreal on Monday. The 27-year-old Barrett has spent six seasons in the majors--all with the Expos. He has a career batting average of .253 with 38 homers and 193 RBIs. His career fielding percentage is .991 in 399 games. Barrett hit .208 with 10 home runs and 30 RBIs in 2003, but spent much of the season on the disabled list after injuring his hip in July. While making a rehab appearance, he fractured his left index finger and didn't return until September 10. The Expos selected Barrett with the 28th overall pick in the 1995 draft. He was originally drafted as a shortstop but was converted to a catcher. He had his best season in 2002, when he hit .263 with 12 homers, 49 RBIs and 20 doubles. Copyright © 2003, The Associated Press

At one time he was pretty highly regarded, but he sucked so bad last year he lost his job to Brian Schneider. I believe he was touted as a good-hit average-fielding catcher, that turned into weak-hitting, defensively-challenged catcher. Cubs can have him, but what did they give up for him?

NEW ORLEANS BOWL New Orleans Dec. 16, 7 p.m. (ESPN2) North Texas vs. Memphis -- MEMPHIS GMAC BOWL Mobile, Ala. Dec. 18, 8 p.m. (ESPN2) Miami (Ohio) vs. Louisville -- MIAMI TANGERINE BOWL Orlando Dec. 22, 5:30 p.m. (ESPN) North Carolina State vs. Kansas -- N.C. STATE FORT WORTH BOWL Fort Worth, Texas Dec. 23, 7:30 p.m. (ESPN) Boise State vs. Texas Christian -- TCU LAS VEGAS BOWL Las Vegas Dec. 24, 7:30 p.m. (ESPN) New Mexico vs. Oregon State -- NEW MEXICO HAWAII BOWL Honolulu Dec. 25, 8 p.m. (ESPN) Hawaii vs. Houston -- HAWAII MOTOR CITY BOWL Detroit, Mich. Dec. 26, 5 p.m. (ESPN) Bowling Green vs. Northwestern -- NORTHWESTERN INSIGHT BOWL Phoenix Dec. 26, 8:30 p.m. (ESPN) Virginia Tech vs. California -- V.T. CONTINENTAL TIRE BOWL Charlotte, N.C. Dec. 27, 11 a.m. (ESPN) Virginia vs. Pittsburgh -- PITTSBURGH ALAMO BOWL San Antonio Dec. 29, 9 p.m. (ESPN) Michigan State vs. Nebraska -- NEBRASKA HOUSTON BOWL Houston Dec. 30, 4:30 p.m. (ESPN) Texas Tech vs. Navy -- NAVY SILICON VALLEY CLASSIC San Jose, Calif. Dec. 30, 7:30 p.m. (ESPN2) Fresno State vs. UCLA -- UCLA HOLIDAY BOWL San Diego Dec. 30, 8 p.m. (ESPN) Washington State vs. Texas -- WASH. ST MUSIC CITY BOWL Nashville, Tenn. Dec. 31, Noon (ESPN) Auburn vs. Wisconsin -- AUBURN SUN BOWL El Paso, Texas Dec. 31, 2 p.m. (CBS) Oregon vs. Minnesota -- OREGON LIBERTY BOWL Memphis Dec. 31, 3:30 p.m. (ESPN) Southern Mississippi vs. Utah -- SOUTHERN MISS. INDEPENDENCE BOWL Shreveport, La. Dec. 31, 7:30 p.m. (ESPN) Arkansas vs. Missouri -- ARKANSAS SAN FRANCISCO BOWL San Francisco Dec. 31, 10:30 p.m. (ESPN2) Colorado State vs. Boston College -- BOSTON COLLEGE OUTBACK BOWL Tampa, Fla. Jan. 1, 11 a.m. (ESPN) Iowa vs. Florida -- FLORIDA Last year: Michigan 38, Florida 30 GATOR BOWL Jacksonville, Fla. Jan. 1, 12:30 p.m. (NBC) Maryland vs. West Virginia -- WEST VIRGINIA CAPITAL ONE BOWL Orlando, Fla. Jan. 1, 2003, 1 p.m. (ABC) Georgia vs. Purdue -- GEORGIA ROSE BOWL Pasadena, Calif. Jan. 1, 5 p.m. (ABC) Southern California vs. Michigan -- MICHIGAN ORANGE BOWL Miami Jan. 1, 8:30 p.m. (ABC) Florida State vs. Miami (Fla.) -- FSU COTTON BOWL Dallas Jan. 2, 2 p.m. (FOX) Oklahoma State vs. Mississippi -- OKLA. ST PEACH BOWL Atlanta Jan. 2, 4:30 p.m. (ESPN) Clemson vs. Tennessee00 -- TENNESSEE FIESTA BOWL Tempe, Ariz. Jan. 2, 8 p.m. (ABC) Kansas State vs. Ohio State -- KANSAS ST. HUMANITARIAN BOWL Boise Jan. 3, 2 p.m. (ESPN) Tulsa vs. Georgia Tech -- GEORGIA TECH SUGAR BOWL New Orleans Jan. 4, 8 p.m. (ABC) Oklahoma vs. Louisiana State -- OKLAHOMA

Vince loves Juan Gonzalez.

We wouldn't give him 3-4 million a year? The two stooges in the front office better be cooking up something real nice.

Mohr's stats vs. the White Sox since 2001: BA: .267 OBP: .313 HR's: 1 RBI'S: 9 At Bats: 90 K's: 19 That's quite a savage beating he's put on our beloved Pale Hose

No, it was definitely a "sources say" article. However, I certainly think it's probable that Maggs would turn down that deal in hopes of getting more by putting himself on the market. Now, whether this deal was actually ever offered is a different story altogether.........

Warren Newsom

If memory serves, Ordonez turned down a 3-year, $30 million extension.

"and how do we tell if she is made of wood?" "Build a bridge out of her!"

My only problem with that logic is that it gives credence to the theory that you should support a s***ty product, then they will improve it. That's a load of crap. You put a good proiduct on the field, and THAT'S when the crowds start averaging more than 19,000/game. Whining that you can't run a team on a break-even or net-loss plan should carry no weight with anyone--the way business has been done on EVERY level since the beginning of trade is that you have to convince people you have something they want , and that entails spending money on your product, even if it means losing money at first.

Brando(or anyone who knows)-- How do you slice up a quote like that and have it appear in the "message" part of your post? I can't figure it out, mainly because I'm an idiot.

And I concede you may be right as well. This is not a clear cut issue (unlike say paying Gordon and Colon what they got), and I definately overracted in the thread title. 2004 will decide which one of us is right. **WORD TO YOUR MOTHER Fist of all, I was talking about MID-3.00 ERA. Secondly, you do realize that Sox CANNOT GET INVOLVED IN BIDDING WAR? In some bizzaro world (no doubt run by Bid Selig), Colon may indeed be worth. To Sox he isn't. Similarly, now a 6 Mill a year contract forces Mark to become a mid-3.00 ERA pitcher. He can pull it off, but I can certainly see why he might not be able to, in which case Sox are THAT much more f***ed in terms of making postseason in 2004. **I AGREE, AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THEY'RE ROLLING THE DICE HERE. UNDER THE PREVIOUS DEAL, WASN'T BUEHRLE ELIGIBLE FOR ARBITRATION EVERY YEAR THRU 2006? IF HE BECOMES THE LOW-MID 3.00 ERA PITCHER, HE MIGHT GRAB MORE THAN $6 MIL. JR alienatted fans with his cheap approach, and all these small market money s*** is partly because of him.....While KW, in turn, made STUPID signing such as Ritchie, Konerko, Wells, Koch, Valentin which put the Sox in an even BIGGER hole, forcing us to literally WATCH every cent we spend from now on...........If Mark doesn't come through, it no longer just a performance issue as you're not paying him SERIOUS money than could have been spent fixing problems elsewhere.**YAH, THAT'S TRUE, BUT EVERY GM MAKES MISTAKES. IT'S NOT REALLY FAIR TO KW BECAUSE EVERY TIME CASHMAN OR EPSTEIN f*** UP, THEY'LL JUST SPEND MORE $$$ TO COMPENSATE. KW DOESN'T HAVE THAT LUXURY. I AGREE WITH THE JR SMALL-MONEY BULLs*** THOUGH. IT'S DEFINTELY A RISK WITH MB. I BELIEVE HE'LL LIVE UP TO WHAT THEY PAID HIM, BUT I KNOW THERE'S NO GUARANTEE.

As long as they don't give Millwood anything close to what Boras is asking. Maddux is old, and moving him to the offensively superior AL might turn him into the 2003 version of Kevin Appier Ponson?--slightly torn right labrum. I still think he's scary, because if it rips, he's gone for possibly 3 seasons.

3 for $31 mil? We get Buehrle for the same time frame at $6 mil a year? I like it.

You may be right, but if Buerhle was pitching consistently with a low 3.xx ERA, teams would be ready to give him much more than 6 million a year. JR and KW are rolling the dice with him--they have to. Let's hope they're right.