BrandoFan

He is getting used to the position; remember Paulie is worse than he was last year with Durham so it actually forces DJ drift further to his left than he should or can. Still, he isn;t worse than Ray-Ray and his girlish arm and lack of range, especially to his right. Ray took bad jumps on groundballs and because of his quick, short steps it looked like he was very mobile, but it was an illusion IMO. With some work (and I emphasize work because they say he is lazy and apathetical) DJ may become and above average defensive 2B. He won't be a GG shortstop he could have been if it weren;t for the freak accident, but neither was 8 Mill a year Ray-ray last time I checked. Well, he is not doing all that bad either. Again, considering how bad our boy Olivo is doing, I do;t think it's right to crap on 900+ OPS that DJ has going for him even with the terrible start at KC. What sets him apart from, I believe, is that loike I mentioned, DJ works the count EXCEPTIONALLY well (making an out after a 8-pitch battle not only wear the pitcher out, but also lets Jose and Frank see a ton of pitches) and he isn't even 25 yet, right? Did he or did he not almost single-handedly win the most important game of the season thus far? That's one leap of fancy you're making...We already have one over-achiever in Rowand, but frankly it's one thing when you have an improving CF'er with a strong, accurate arm and another when you have a near 27yo AA player who can't field (are you kiddin' me??!!!), gets thrown out almost as many times as he steals a base and has Clayton-esque power potential. I really like Miles as a person...but not as a starting 2B-man on a championship team...Heck, he can't carry Graffinose's jock, afaiac, lol Until they lead the league with 120+ DP's again, that is. Do you actually realize that Crede-Val-DJ-Konerko combo have one of the strongest arms in the league? And their range is above average, too, Koney excepted.

I do not find those analogies to be applicable in any way whatsoever, HSC. It's lazy and insensitive to trivialize life-death situations in this manner. Not fair to fans and ballplayers either. Please drop it. Sorry, but asking Maggs or Hurt or Crede not to slide in head first on the relay to the plate in most regular season games lest we run a high risk of losing them (and the whole friggin' season with them!) is not such an outrageous thing to do. Not to mention that most dangerous "dives" are pretty much ineffective as far as preventing runs goes and so are attempts to knock the ball out a catchers glove at the plate (failes 90+ % of the time)...Risks outweigh reward by a mile IMO. If it doesn't fit into your idealistic outlook on nature and purpose of competition, that's your problem. Nobody actually said Maggs should be prohibited from trying to make reasonable plays or that he completely dogs it out Belle-style...but extra caution is certainly in order. And if you watch Maggs or Hurt (Edgar or Sosa or Bonds, list goes on) you would see that they themselves NEVER take Rowand-esque chances. They must know what's best for them, or are they pussies, too- just like "this whole generations that doesn;t know how to live for real and have heart"-cakes? Hmm. BTW, today with bases loaded, on 2-2 count Miguel Olivo had a chance to "take one for the team" by leaning into the pitch (it was inches from his elbow, which he promptly jerked out of the way). Why didn't he do it "for the good of the team"? Because he was smart, that's why- it's not worth breaking your forearm on a cold day and jeopardizing your career; coincidentally by doing so he also did the whole team a favor and stayed healthy. It's just one out of countless of examples that I can give you. Frank's injury in 2001 which as I said before practically wiped out not only that year but also the next one. Did you like it then? I agree with a few posters who mentioned that it's not such a black&white, right&wrong issue: depends on many factors such as who the player is and what the situation calls for: what's acceptable for no-hit Willie Harris in a close pennant game is not for Valentin and his fragile hamstrings in a regular game, or what's good for Valentin maynot be good for 6'5", 270 pound Hurt, etc... Griffey went for a highlight reel play (vanity thing) and now Reds are out of it for sure, which is a shame because they had a real shot at postseason and could have made life miserable for sCrUBieS, what with with Larkin, Boone, Dunn, Casey, Kearns and Junior and all...At least Yakees are stacked without Jeter- what about Nevin? A-Rod's back? YMMV.

-Top 10 batspeed in baseball maybe. It takes more tha that to hit good pithing on consistent basis, of course, but still the tools are there. -power potential on par with Sammy Sosa (though he would need to hit the weights, Frank said they are working on it now, lol) -How about newfound patience last year (60 walks in the last 3+ months is Sosa-esque BTW)? -Let's try being a Cub Killer (how soon do we forget that game he singlehandedly won to salvage the series)? -He stole 20+ bases a few years back and they said his defense is improving now to the point where he won;t be a liability anymore --he is just a good-natured goof, a fan favorite who is only making 4 million a year with little downside. If he doesn;t work out, we can always plug Daubach or Valnezula or Boarchard in. If he puts up a 900 OPS season, will you admit you were wrong about him, bags? I would if his OPS is below 800...

Well, considering how many 4 and 5 -out innings he had to pitch in, I am not surprised. In any case, he was WAY better than anyone we had on the staff that year and all those injuries (Baldwin, Pip Squeek, Cyborg and later Barcelo and Rauch) weren't great news to anyone becase meant Wells (horrible ERA) ans Garland (even horrible-r) had to lead the rotation. (And unlike Parqua and Co., Mike got suprisingly little run support form that 950-run offfense if I remember correctly. Something to the rune of 4 runs a game. I may be wrong though)

You mean the guy in charge of Koolaid Kooler?

. If Lance Berkman and Larry Walker who are bigger and heavier than Maggs can handle a tougher CF's in their respective parks, and Borchrda (who is bigger than both) can easily play the position, I don't see why Maggs with his good jumps and above-average arm can't be given a shot if Rowand's OPS is below 700 and Borchard isn't ready. Maggs is the all-around RF, afterall. Plus you aren't exactly slow if you can steal 24 bases which Maggs did in 2001. Didn't Rowand learn the postion just a year ago and he is 6'1 and just a few punds lighter than Maggs. Can Daubach adequate RF?

<<<>>>>jokes busy writing themselves>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<< Someone at WSI had wondered if Dick Hertz is their conditioning coach...ROTFLMAO Why yes I am 9.

I think he did a bang up job of it and I am surprised Jose wasn't injured. The play was over and Palmer had a few seconds to change his mind but decided to ram his spikes into our SS's left chin full speed. Unreal stuff and Sox didn't retaliate.

How cooler would it be if the opera singing vendor started wise-cracking harrasment of players at-bat instead? I think heckling is as much part of baseball (atmosphere?) as fighting in hockey. YMMV.

Dude, he's awesome...albeit in the absurdly surreal kinda way. If only he could be as snarky and merciless rhetoric (libretto?)-wise as some of the guys behind the plate at the Cell...he'd be way awsomer. It should be KW's first order of business to recruit that momo in the off-season. He'd be our Ronnie WooWoo. If it means seeing Maggs throw a bad-ass flying dropkick again, I am all there. Would pay big money to see that, too But yeah, Palmer and Clemens both need a beating Bill the Butcher-style, pronto.

Agreed, though it's far from being meangingless (read: avg. for hitters or K's for pitchers). It's best when it's used in combination with other crucial stats like OBP-against, WHIP, W-L, team's error totals and range factor. Also one needs to edjust for NL and/or hitters ballparks like Enron, Camden, Coors, etc. One thing I don't agree with: the idea that a pitcher with a 18-12 record and 4.20 ERA playing for a great offensive and defensive team like Yankees is better than someone like Mark Prior who had era in low 3.00 yet barely broke .500. Yes, Eldred and Partuqe had preposterous W-L records in the first half of 2000, but it had nothing to do with pitching- they each had over 8 effin' runs scored FOR them game in game out, lol. To the former was better than Pedro because of his 10-1 record is preposterous. Mike Sirotka would have been a 20 game winner (to say nothing of his ERA- shave off half a point easily because of that godawful D. of ours) if he had played for the Indians in 2000 IMO. Is Wright better than Jon-Jon? Time will tell, they both had enough stuff to be solid #3s for nearly any team. Can they be 1-2? Not right now. Too erratic, though last month a half of 2002 was beyond proimising.

Did you see what Valentin did on a 3-2 by Hurt single to left? He almost scored from 1st, I swear God. Lol. They would both be on DL by June, lol Frank's batspeed is gone compared to 2000; he always seems to barely foul off pitches down the middle, the very pitches lightening quick batspeed guys like Bonds and Sosa and Ramirez would deposit for 500 feet homers. I mean the effort is there, the famous hand-eye coordination too, but the reflexes and power just aren't IMO. Old Frank would be hitting 55 homers at the Cell.

If Daubach can hit to the tune of Tim Salmon-like 900 OPS and do well in clutch situations as he did in BoTown, do you think an outfield of Lee-Maggs-Daubach is a viable option if Borchard isn;t ready, Rowand continues to suck and Lee heats it up? Likewise Andruw Jones will never be Corey Patterson Chisoxfn, what do you tihnk of Mario Valenzula? They say he is good as Maggs ever was at ML level and we know how well Maggs did after 600 major league at bats or so...But then again Abbottt and Leifer and Kieshniek were also better than either Maggs or Lee and we know how THAT turned out...Liefer is kicking ass in NL, though lol

I had Val at .270, 30 homers, 30 doubles, 100 ribbies, 50 bibbies, 15 stealies before Spring Training (which he lit up in the last 2 weeks BTW) but if--only if--he could stay hamstring problem-free and wouldn't attempt any of that "beating the force-out at 2nd" s*** that almost cost him a broken leg last year. Who knows, I may have to revise those numbers up, lol. (I keep my fingers crossed as Jose is one of the clutch-iest leaders this team has, though I guess Graffanino can step in and put up respectable 700 OPS #s if need be. ) On the related note, I wanted to kill that c*cksucker Palmer for spiking Val like that. What a sportsman that guy is!

I agree, it's very important. We know that Jerry Manuel sucks at stretegic placement of his defenders. Of course DJ is not Robbie Alomar! Geez, he is new to the posistion, has put on quite a few pounds since his flashy, pre-injury days and is generally very lackadaisical (the only reason he ain't an AS yet and might never be IMO)...He is still better than Ray, who could go to his left ah-'t, but had a girlie arm and either couldn't get to anything up the middle or would let the ball go under his semi-dive. My impression.

1. Jimenez is a former defensive SS of the year at AAA if I recall correctly, so even with neck injury-related decline he is still much better up the middle than Ray ever was and has a stronger arm, which goes without saying. The question is, will he work hard enough (Ray certainly did) at getting better at turning DP's and going to his left. The rumor is he is really lazy on the D. end so I dunno, but if he does, he will almost cetainly be better than Ray-ray who, among other things, had a knack for making a blunder in the most inopportune moments (his non-error error in the 3rd game of ALDS comes to mind to spoil JB's ballsy and clutch comeback from DL). 2. Jimenez not having the speed to steal 30 bases [anymore]? Maybe and mayne not; if juiced up Valdimir Guerrero and A-Rod can do, I tihnk Jimenez can steal 15-20 with ease. It makes me wonder which games you are watching though. The games I am watching show that DJ is at least as fast as Josh Paul. Maybe it's the LASIK acting up, I dunno 3. I used to like Ray a lot. Not as much as Carlos Lee, Garland or Jose, but a lot. How soon do we forget that Ray had a career year at 31 last year and in 2001 everyone was on his case about always swinging for the fences. Do you remembver how many times he popped up on the first pitch with runner on 3rd? I do and I haven;t even been around long enough to follow his whole career. He is also making close to 8 million a year last time I checked; with him staying we would have to let go of Paulie and;/or would have never gotten Colon...Will DJ make ASG this year? It all depends on what Crede, Paulie, Hurt, Lee and Marte do. With Maggs and Colon and Burhle may be going, I doubt that they would want to choose more than 4-5 total players from one team even for the Cell crowd. I'll say this: at least one out of Crede-Valentin-DJ will go. Oh, and Durham couldn't bunt for s***. Boo-ya!!! Ha'dya like dem apples!

1. Lee has deceptive speed. He stole 20+ bases 2 years ago, no? He is slower than Stewart but by no means a Konerko. Above average for a LF'er I think. 2. Lee is way too talented. Unless Stewart can play center field, I veto the trade proposal With the exception of Frank, Crede and Hurt, we are NOT all that slow with the likes of Jimenez, Olivo, Magglio, Rowand, Borchard Lee and esp. Valentin all being able to score from 1st on a double down the line and swipe an occasional base or two and that's ALL you need. Can they steal 20+ bases each? Rowand, Olivo and Valentin could easily if they had 28-30 attempts each, which they won't so it's a moot point...but thene agin, lioke you said, we're a high-powered offense and will never be Minnesota-like. I am fine with that.

Jose is still fast enough (as evidenced by him scoring from 1st on a double and 2nd on a single every damn time, something that even Rowand and Jimenez not always do) and get s good enough jumps to steal 15 out 20 bases. He stole 19 out 21 just 2 some years ago. Thje reason he doesn't run is because of that hamstring that get aggravated very often. Otherwise I guess we should see Maggs and Lee steal 25 bases each very soon, then.

Seirously, folks, I tihnk Jimenez not only has a a higher ceiling than a 24yo Durham did, but also ois alredy as good as Ray. Evn when he makes outs, it's 6, 7, 8+ pitch affair. Impressive.

How can ANYONE put a price on what Olivo, Crede and Jimenez (and to a lesser extent Val) have done today with their super-clutch (considering the Sox simply could not lose this game) pffense AND defense. This a clutch as it it gets, ladies and genetlemen. Don't let them tell you "clutch" doesn't exist. Especially after Lee and Rowand chocked out. Huge! I would put what Olivo, Crede and Jimenez did on the same page as Jeff Abbott's season-turning around walk off 2-run homer against Twinckies in 2000. I am having flashbacks! Even Maggs and J-Paul broke out! GO SOX!!!

You know what? I think JM agrees with me: after Frank and Jose's contention-derailing injuries in 2001, you haven't seen Lee, Magglio, Jose, Rowand and Co. run NEARLY as much as they did before last year. I sure as hell don't want to see Jose try that extremely foolish, pointless play last year (for those of you who don't remember Frank hits a lazy groundball to SS with Jose at 1st. The shortstop naturally assumes it's an easy inning-ending force-out and take his sweet time, not realizing thatJose not oly got a great jump of Frank's bat, but is also running full speed...long story short Jose is safe but doing that his ankle bends at a rediculous angle and for a moment is seams like it's broken. Thank God it wasn't; Sox would still lose the game and twith Frank sucking it up, the season would not be salvaged.). Nor do I want him to try to steal bases in an attempt to prove he can swipe 20. We know he can, we know he is clutch and gives it his all 110% and is a true leader. We don;t need freak, meaningless plays on which it's easy to get hurt. I sure as hell don't. It's.not.worth.it.

I am sory but this would be a mistake of Sosa-Bell-esque proportions. Carlos is a goof no doubt, but so is Sosa, Ramirez, Canseco, and many others. He just came off a great second half AND hit .400 in the spring..AND has already 3 walks while obviously being in the slump. There is no reason to give up now. Not on Konerko and especially nto CLee. Sure, keep an eye out for Rowand and Daubach and Valenzula, but Lee-Borchard-Maggs should be the starting trio until proven otherwise. And Sox will never have great, Minnesota-like defense regadless if it's Borchard or Lee out there. IMO, Rowand is also FAR from his potential. His second at-bat against a bad Tiger pitcher is case in point: on 2-0 he puts a huge swing on would-be ball 3. Way foul. Then he proceeds to take two consecutive "right there" pitches that players like Giambi would have absolutely crushed for stikes 2 and 3. See ya later. Clearly Aaron was guessing and reacting out there intead of trying to read the pitches and use short and quick swing like all good hitters do. Not good.

If Aaron can dublicate his Spetember 2001 #s, I think the Sox have found the ideal trade bait once Borchard is ready: Aaron is getting better and better in CF with each game (he's already at worst average his jumps, fearlesness and arm strenght and accuracy considered), he is one of the best bunters in the game, can steal 20 bags easily if he learns a thing or two from Jose about getting a better jump...and he showed he could flat out hit when starting. SO now the question is can he find an "eye" ala Carlos Lee last year; I think 60 walks a year should be Aaron's goal. (As a part-time player, though, he is too effin' impatient to be that kind of a player) If he can hit 280 with 50 walks, 35 doubles, 15 homers, 20 steals and flawless D., he would be worth more than Griffey to the Sox considering his minimal salary and abilti to lead by fearless plays. YMMV.

Clujer420 you make excellent points. Except for one: I meant that Frank shouldn't be playing a defensive position AT ALL, especially seeing how he cost us the game at Seatlle in ALDS; his and fans' eagerness to "prove" something (back then people were arguing tht Sosa is greater player than Hurt because he fields, etc) resulted in 2001 and 2002 seasons being wiped out JUST.LIKE.THAT. Again, Griffey wouldn't have gotten to a ball and now bacause of it Red are out of playoffs. That's the price you pay I guess. Sox not making it deep into playoffs this year would be CATASTROPHIC on many levels. There is a difference between not giving it your all like Manny Ramirez or Albert Belle and not taking stupid risks by refusing to diving head first into a wall/at 220 pound catchers at home plate. Big difference. This is not High Heat 2004- this is real life and superstars can go down in a jiffy. Ask yourself "Would a couple extra highlight reel defensive grabs make-up for an increased injury chance? "

Fair enough.