BrandoFan

Look, I don't care about such meaningless trivia crap as Complete Games, hitting streaks, consecutive 300-30-100 seasons - give me somebody with a 2.00 ERA but no CG, somebody who hits .390 but never for more than 10 games at a time, and somebody who hits 295-29-140.....You get the idea. But if Garret Anderson and Tejada are worth 12 Mill per, so is Magglio. Remember, losing Maggs would be a huge PR hit, so if it's a choice beyween paying him 11-12 Mill and not.....pay up. But I do agree that 5/75 is overboard.

They're not? Very well then. Trade for Glavine or Garcia. Then trade for Beltran. Just make sure Munoz, Honel, Cotts, Olivo, Crede, Borchard, Reed are NOT part of the deal. Rauch, Rowand and Diaz for Beltran, let's do it.

Actually it did work - compared to 1998 anyway. 2000 team totally choked offensively in postseason - something you can't protect against even with a 100 Mill payroll as Braves proved last year - but coming into 2000 playoffs, objectively speaking, they had AS GOOD a chance to win the Series as any team. That year the team's payroll was < 35 Mill. 2001 team suffered a terrible injury epidemic early - again, you can't protect against it, and a 100 Mill payroll team could easily suffer the same fate. Otherwise, a healthy 2001 team would have beaten the Indians no prob. I don't know whether or not it would have won the Series, but with Buerhle-Wells-Wells and a potent offens and good pen, they'd had easily as good a chance as 2002 Agels or 2003 Marlins. Now...once 2001 team failed, both in terms of results and revenue (remember Reinsdorf literally doubled the 2000 payroll because attendance shot up as compared to 1999, but it didn't take off in 2001), THAT's when JR's myopic, greed-driven approach caught up with him - resulting in 2002 and 2003 debacles where a few extra Mill wisely spent could have turned the tide in Sox favor......But I digress. Reposting from another thread:

Sox have Harris who hits RHP and Rowand who mashes LHP platooning in CF for 350K a piece. Beltran still has about 6 Mill left on the contract, and KC is gonna ask for Olivo/Reed, Crede, Bajenaru and Munoz/Honel or some such combo. Ouch. Furthermore, Carlos Beltran has cooled off considerably since his torrid April and is now putting up numbers more consistent with his talent and history. Only 1 HR in the last month. In the meantime, Sox have no real #1 going into the playoffs - you know, the pither who is gonna take the ball in Games 1 and 4 of ALDS? Beltran would be a very good addition, a true PR coup........But NOT before the starting rotation hole is fixed and NOT if it means mortgaging the future. [/beltran is NOT coming to the Sox, no way]

Fine. You win. Give Magglio 5/75 he is looking for. Afterall, back in 1998, the team's payroll was around 45 Mill, with Belle and Thomas making 21 Mill between them. It worked out great.

You also like to think that we should nuke Middle East. Do me a favor, stop thinking. You'll feel better. This thread came 3 days too soon. Bad move CW, you could have waited until Monday, right?

This is beyond ridiculous. Braves hitters whom that shill Dave Wills called a "weak-hitting team" made great adjusments to Schoe and singled him to death. Sox forgot the meaning of going up to opposite field and Jarret Washed-up promtly cut and tailed the low-90's fastball away, away and busted lefties in. You fail to make adjustments and start swinging for ther fences in the major leagues, and you're done. This team is every bit as schitzophrenic as the 2003 squad that could completely outplay the WS-bound Yankees in their house and then go to Detroit and play so putridly that only a couple of lucky bounces prevented them from being swept. I mean....when is OUR 8-game winning streak coming? That Koch blown save in Oakland set free this team's inner loser, it seems.

Outside of Schoenweiss, Gload has been the biggest goat in this game: not only is he 0-for-4 but his ugly throw that missed the cutoff man with 2 outs (the runner would have been caught and inning over) basically cost the Sox 3 runs. Not your night Ross. :puke

Next time people question why arm is considered a tool for an OF: Willie's and Gload's inability to make a strong, accurate throw cost the Sox at least 3 runs this inning. I miss Rowand in CF and Maggs in RF

Updated Historical Abstract by Bill James Bunts by George F. Will Nothing fancy-schmancy, which is why I liked them. Informative.

Hev you eva keeeeelled a man?

Sox make it to ALCS this year and win the WS in 2005. What the f*** are you talking about you will never see a world series? You're only 40yo. Can't you settle for ALCS and wait a year for the Series? They don't DESERVE to overtake the Cubs. Wrigley is busting at the seams on Tuesday afternoons in a season where Cubs are below-.500. Their tickets are more expensive and their fans also consume a hellalot more. Their fans have EARNED a 100 Mill payroll. Most Sox fans haven't.

For the same reason why A-Rod may be "worth" 50 Mill a year to the Yankees and no more than 15 to the Sox - in their present financial state, that is. Take a moment and think about it.

It really IS the end of story. Sox fans as any fans want a winner and could care less about shareholders, that goes WITHOUT saying. Unfortunately, this ownership group cares about profit first and foremost. They won't budge and they sure as hell won't sell. They will continue to ruin this franchise to make a buck, it's just the way it is. Stay away from the park, curtail your spending in an attempt to send a message to JR, etc and you achieve NOTHING, only robbing yourself of fun times at the ballpark in the process. You lose. Team loses. Bottomline: the payroll won't reach 80+ Mill without a significant increase in revenue. You can b**** about it and pick apart every flaw in JR's business model (and there is a lot to criticise!)......or you can accept it as reality and move on. Should you choose to accept it, you'd have to realize why paying 14-15 Mill a year for many years for Magglio would be STUPID. Bonds 5 years ago? Yes. Magglio? No. He is not that good, he is not that popular and the only time he made it into postseason, he more or less choked. Losing him would be a big PR hit, but what the alternative? Crippling the team's chances for years to come? I said before the season that Maggs should be re-signed if he can carry this team deep into the playoffs and fans come in bunches. So far he's had a very ordinary season, and now he might be damaged goods on top of it. Hmm, let me ponder this one..........

Mauer, in his first year, is just an average player. Better than Blanco (not defensively), sure, but not good enough to to make an impact. Looks like a career marred by knee injuries has just began - as predicted in the off-season. 6'4/225 at just 21yo? Throw in recurring back problems 3-4 years from now as well. Stewart is going to be replacing Matt Lecroy as a DH. The way Lecroy has hit this season, Stewart won't be an upgrade.

Don't forget to adjust attendance for 1/2 price, kids days and other promotions. Maggs is worth 13-14 Mill to the Mets, Dodgers, etc. But Sox can't pay 14 Mill over 5 years without deferred moneys. Maggs is not that good, he is a weak draw - not worth 20+ % of the payroll. Baseball 101. I wish some here would understand that there is very little difference between "can't pay" and "won't pay". The spending philosophy has been firmly in place for a while now; shareholders have their own motives and considerations. They have spoken, the budget is set - whether it be 45 Mill in some years and 60-65 Mill in others. These people do NOT want to win. The ONLY way JR-headed investment group would approve a higher payroll is if they see a high likelyhood of making a huge, Cubs-style profit in the process. And given how moody and cheap Sox fans have proven themselves to be, it's just not worth the risk. They'd rather not reach for the stars and just be content with the money they make off the Sox now. Not an ideal way of running a major league franchise? Yeah, but the hard-core business people aren't too preoccupied with the team's long-term future. Only SOX FANS spending their hearts out on consistent bases can save the Sox at this point. Pack the house, spend a ton on concessions and merchandise, double television/radio ratings - in short become Cub-like. THEN, you'll see payroll slowly inching toward 80 Mill mark. End of story.

The whole inning was set-up when the most overrated ss in baseball had his second Christian Guzmanesque blunder of the day and Barrett legged out a "single" with 2 outs - Cubs used that to score 7 more runs Cardinal pitcher was coming off 2 great outings in the minors.....And got absolutely torched. Sounds familiar?

Like?? I AM a geek. Gotta a problem with that, lil' killa?

Maggs has a higher ceiling, but at 30yo he is running out of time to prove that he is a 1st ballot HOF talent. Fact is, Abreu has been EASILY as good as Maggs in the last 5 years. I am being generous.

What's there not to like? A better poll question should be "Should ML baseball stop using juiced baseballs, get super-tough on performance-enhancing drugs, force teams to expand park dimensions to at least 340-380-410, raise the mound and program the Questec system so the strike-zone is to where it was 20 years ago"

No, Rex, he won't. Unless you consider 340 OBP, 490 Slug, good D and good speed at 350 K "coming back to earth". If anything, as Maggs returns and Frank goes into his typical June-August tear, and as Willie starts terrorizing pitchers on the pads in front of him, pitchers could ill-afford to throw breaking pitches in the dirt as much. As long as Juan doesn't fall in love with pulling the ball at all times as his infield partner did, he'll be ok. Miles? Mediocre wheels, below-average glove and a mediocre ML bat. Will be in AAA 6 weeks from now.

He used to be a catcher, you know. Can Paulie handle 3B? He's gonna have to cheat the line, so anything hit in the hole is a basehit. And then there is bunting...

Magglio's arm has been HIGHLY overrated in the last 2 years. It's gotten to a point where everybody was running on him last year. Abreu doesn't throw as well as he used to, but his arm has always been better than Maggs's.

Boy talk about full of s***..... . I am not asking you to "give" me anything, dope. Reality speaks for itself. Next time don't spout off about a player's "obvious" superiority without checking stats first. Bulls*** is getting deeper. Crawford, Beltran, A-Rod, Soriano, Durham, Jeter, Damon and MANY others seem to be running just fine. Yes and he would get CAUGHT 15-20 times just as easily. The reason why he stopped getting greenlight in 2000's was because he RAN HIMSELF INTO TOO MANY OUTS as he got heavier and slower and more complacent with his jumps. Duh. Not that your "wouldas" haver anything to do with reality.....Abreu ran Magglio off the bases and that's the bottomline. Huh, what the f*** are talking about? Magglio created 9 EXTRA outs per year in the last 5 years because of DP hit into. It's a fact. In order to adjust their respective overall production for those extra GIDP, you either have to give Magglio 9 errors per year, or take away 9 of his singles a year, or give Abreu 9 extra singles, etc..... Yeah, about as dead as your brain. The most important offensive stat, OPS, is unaffected by the amount of games played and Maggs has only missed a couple of weeks. Only in your ignorant, Magglio-loving world.

1999-2004 OPS: Magglio - 915 Abreu - 940 1999-2004 Stolen Bases: Magglio - 72 Abreu - 156 1999-2004 GIDP: Magglio - 111 Abreu - 65 1999-2004 Range: Magglio - good (not great) Abreu - good (not great) 1999-2004 Arm Magglio - good Abreu - very good 2004 Salary Magglio - 14 M Abreu - 10 M Yeah I would say Abreu has been EASILY as good as Maggs in the last 5 years. Have a nice day.