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QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 01:44 PM) No, no you don't. Look at the Blue Jays for example A. their number of wins early in the decade: 2001: 80 2002:78 2003:86 2004:67 2005: 80 Those are poor records in which they could get good draft picks. As the decade progressed they improved a little with those picks. 2006: 87 2007: 83 2008: 86 2009: 75 2010: 85 2011: 81 The number of wins was still low which contiued to give them a good draft position. They have not had really good seasons which gave them poor draft positions. They have been in good draft positions so they aren't a real good example.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) So you're prepared for 10+ years of last place finishes in order to stockpile top-3 draft picks? I think this is point most don't get. In order to really build the farm system to one of the best, you need to be bad foir a long time. You obviously can have a good one with good scouting but to be Rays good you need to be bad for a long time.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 01:26 PM) It also fits with attempting to move salary at the trading deadline too (i.e. perhaps moving part of Peavy's contract away). I agree. The way the Danks contract is structured, it seems KW moves are hindered by Peavy's contract this upcoming year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 01:14 PM) Actually, yes, I'm somewhat familiar with that, but let me also say that if my career was built in no small part on my ability to flick my wrists while flailing a piece of wood around my body, I'd put a hell of a lot more effort into it than I currently do. Even if you concentrate on them, it's really difficult to increase their size that much, not impossible but really difficult. The small wrist flexors and extensors just do not have the cross sectional size to hypertrophy like the quads which have 20X the cross sectional area.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:49 PM) I certainly don't see that. Maybe he changed, but it's so subtle I can't fathom how you can clearly say "This player wasn't juicing because his body type didn't change". Especially when normal people add mass at about the same agem. Anyway...my point is, unless you saw Tetrahydrogestrinone's back in 1991 and verified that there was not an abnormal amount of acne, you've got at best a circumstantial case that the guy was clean. Given that he clearly was willing to do so later in his career, I simply choose to believe that the reason he was an athletic freak early in his career has a good chance of being chemical as well. And I have exactly the same amount of proof of that as people have that he was clean. I did see many of those players. and you're right you have as much definitive proof as i do. That's why i said it was my opinion. i am just basing it on my experience with these type of athletes, especially back then when just weightlifting was new to baseball. I still think it is fairly easy to pick most but not all of them out. In your pictures compare the size of his forearms. I don't know how much you've worked out but do you now how hard it is to significantly hypertorphy those small wrist flexors and extensors? Back to my original point that I think the writer's will do the same thing. many of the writer's think the know who did and who didn't and also when they started. i also think from knowing some writers that they will look at this ans individually decide on who they will let in and who they won't.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 09:52 AM) Adding Josh Willingham, Ryan Doumit, Jamey Carroll, and Jason Marquis to the roster while losing Kubel and Cuddyer earns compliments from you? Jonathan Sanchez, Yunieskey Betancourt, Jonathan Broxton, and Jose Mijares is an imposing set of additions? If either of those teams are getting better, it's because players on their current roster take steps forwards. Much like the White Sox. Agreed. The only team that has substantially improved itself in the central will be Detroit, if they land Garza. The whole central will be up for grabs with really no clear cut favorite, as it stands right now. However, it's only January so it's somewhat pointless. My prediction: Sox announce the signing of Cepedes (sp?) right before Soxfest as we know they like to add hype right before it to increase attention.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 08:42 AM) If we're judging solely based on body type changes...I didn't even bring this name up first...when did Palmeiro's body type change? when he left the cubs. He was a different player and body type in Texas. He didn't bulk up to sosa size but he definitely changed. The cubs traded him because they though Grace had more power. this also isn't an exact science where ever single case these things happen. this is still all my opinion not proof. But I'm pretty confident in what I saw back then as I'm sure many people involved in baseball were, including the writers. Being with the players in locker rooms and training rooms is an advantage. for example, seeing acne on guys backs that look like burns because is was so bad is not real common in guys in their late 20's, unless other things are going on.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 08:17 PM) He wrote that he was stabbing McGwire's tuchus when Mac was a rookie in 1984. Kinda tough to do when Canseco was a rookie in 85 and McGwire was a rookie in 86.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 07:10 PM) Excellent point. It's well known that guys in the early and mid 80s were juicing. The guys really started to balloon as the roids got better and better and more plentiful, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if many players juiced well before the perceived steroid era I would disagree. One of the really accurate things in Canseco's book is that he made the PEDs popular in MLB. The only drugs prior to him in 86 or so were cocaine and amphetamines. There were probably were a few but there weren't many. At the time most players looked like normal people. Most didn't even lift weights.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 05:14 PM) Everyone sorta gives Bonds the benefit of the doubt on his pre-1998 time. I simply don't. If he was willing to cheat after watching the 1998 home run derby, that stain should apply to his whole career. I'm not saying it doesn't. I wouldn't vote him in. your comment was that there was only one reason writers may vote him in. I stated that some writers may vote him in based on that the fact that he was one of the best players prior to the PEDs or in your cas the perceived PED use. I wouldn't but that is another reason why someone would. Personally, I wouldn't vote him in even if he didn't start using PEDs. He is the absolute worst person I've ever had to work with in my life. I don't hold grudges against anyone but he is the exception to my rule.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 04:31 PM) And he couldnt' have used any PED's previously to get over an injury or get ready for a season? You have the blood samples? He couldn't have increased the dosages or changed over to the new drug? OK if you going to go down that road then no there is no proof he wasn't on them when he was younger. However, he didn't fit the physical profile and from the ones I've seen and worked with I don't believe he was on them. I guess Sammy Sosa was on them with the Rangers and Sox as well. Palmeiro must have taken them in college when he and Bobby Thigpen fought for ther HR title at Mississippi State.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 04:07 PM) How do you know for certain that he didn't start PED's in 1984? If you watched him play, it was very obvious when he started using them. He went from a lean body and all around athlete to the muscle bound slugger later in his career. The amount of PEDs he used was staggering and changed his body rapidly.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 03:29 PM) In the middle of the 2002 season, retiring, after his tetrahydrogestrinone fueled 2001 campaign? I think he'd be facing the same thing as McGwire. The only reason people might put Bonds in anyway is that he actually did pass 756, even though he was chemically aided. Another reason he may get in is that he was one of the best players in the game before he started the PEDs. He was an a@# but a great all around player. Guys like McGwire, palmeiro and Piazza started the PEDs right away so it is unsure how good they could have been without them.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:17 PM) I can't believe more than half of the voters still think Raines isn't a HOF. It took me a while to come around on him too, but he belongs. Jack Morris...I don't need stats on him. He belongs. Multiple 20-win seasons, 175 complete games, 3 championships with three different teams, including winning Game 7 of the 91 series. Now with the beefy ballots coming on the next couple years, it will be interesting to see if he goes over the hump next year. I think he made alot of writers and baseball people angry whenhe admitted to changing the way he played due to the cocaine. ie. not sliding going into second because he had a vial of cocaine in his pocket. I think he deserves it so this is the only reason I can think of.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 08:16 AM) I'll wait for a Pt answer...is that the sort of problem that might be related to being overweight/out of shape? Sorry, been out of town skiing. While there isn't a direct correlation, people with extra weight do tend to have more spinal arthritis and bone issues.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/12/23/265...acy-starts-anew The interesting thing about those stats when comparing MB and Danks is that MB had 11 fewer starts but pitched 60 more innings. This is where Danks has his weakness. Learning that strikeouts don't necessarily mean everything if you can get out of an inning earlier and pitch deeper into games.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 01:26 PM) Have you actually looked at their stat sheets? Stewart is a converted reliever who was clearly tiring this year after 100 innings, and Molina has basically been a pitcher for 2 years. Molina has had 1 full season as a starter, Stewart has at least had about 2. Playing with those guys arms/condition by putting them in the bullpen for a full season is crazy. I would still disagree. I think they have enough time in that with a full off season they would be ready for being a starter. this doesn't include a scenario where they began the season as a reliever and then turned into starting. That would not go well. this is only in reference to their physical development, not if they are mentally or "have the feel for pitching. That is another situation. However, all of this is just from my opinion from my experience. There is no right or wrong or black and white with the development of pitchers. There are many ways to handle them some work better than other for a given individual.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) Who do the Sox have as a legit pitching prospect for the future that has pitched more than 2-3 years in the minors as a starter? Not Sale, not Stewart, not Molina. Pretty much no one that has any hope of winding up on the team in the near future other than maybe Axelrod, who I don't care if he's put in the pen. Which is why I react strongly negatively to the idea of putting Stewart or Molina in the pen, and why doing so with Sale last eyar was so risky. I would put Stewart and Molina in the category of not neededing to worry about innings. Both have had enough time and innings the past few years. Now whether they are ready for the MLB is another story. But if the Sox felt the physically they were ready and all they needed now was Learning. I wouldn't have a problem with it. However, from what I've read Molina isn't ready but Stweart could be. I agree with Sale he has not had the innings. He will not be ready to pitch 200 inngs this year. I would say the 150-180 would be plenty for him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 09:38 AM) The real issue I have is that the Sox are putting guys in the bullpen at the expense of them getting their innings in. The other dominant guys around the league who started in the pen got their innings in at the minor league level before sneaking into the pen for some experience. When David Price pitched out of the pen for the Rays, he'd already thrown 108 innings in the minors that year. I hear your point...but "Conditioning a guy's arm", especially for the kind of raw kids we're getting, has to be the priority. The conditioning the arm part really only applies to guys straight out of college or ones who have had very few innings pitched in the minors. Sale would fall into this category for concern. Anyone who has pitched more than 2-3 years in the minors as a starter I wouldn't worry about it. They can increase their workload over the off season and spring training to get ready to start.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 08:59 AM) For Sale, it made sense. He was being groomed pretty much exclusively at the major league level, and his arm wasn't tuned to 200 innings yet anyway, so it made sense. Molina is trying to build up innings (being a transitioned position player), has been a starter for a couple years, and isn't being jumped early. The cases are just not that similar, and I'd rather Molina was getting starter innings in the minors learning how to pitch. I'm not saying it's right for all pitchers. It's that it can be a very useful straegy and should not be dismissed out of hand. Molina has been a pitcher for 4 years, I think. His transition is over. It's now about learning to pitch effectively and for some it's at the MLB level. I'm not aying it's right for him because I don't know him. It's more about the mental approach than physical.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 08:59 AM) It's not uncommon, but that also doesn't mean it's smart. I disagree. I think it's a good way to build confidence and learn how to pitch to MLB hitters without getting "thrown to the wolves." You can pick and choose the situations to help them learn.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 07:37 AM) Yes, let's put another long-term-starter in the bullpen. See how many more pitchers we can set up where they hit a 120 inning limit when they move to being a starter. It's not uncommon to have a young pitcher start off in the bullpen to get a feel for how to get MLB hitters out and work with the MLB pitching coach for a year then move to the rotation the next year. There's no problem with it if you don't try to ove him into the starting role the same year. If he has an off season to prepare for being a starter he'll be fine.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 04:17 AM) Just to clarify, by "pressure" throwing, are you talking about high leverage situations? Like late in a game, up by 1, 2 runners on base? Or what exactly? I've heard that idea discussed before and have some understanding of what or why it would have an impact. Hawk and Blyleven (watch both quite a bit and respect both of their knowledge of the game) and neither one of them really like the pitch count. Instead, they prefer to look at the stress level at which the pitcher pitched. For starting pitchers, this makes sense. You can have 2 guys throw 110 pitches in 7 innings, but one could do it by throwing anywhere between 14-20 pitches per inning, and one could do it throwing fewer than 13 pitches in 6 innings and throwing 40 in one big inning. The sheer volume of pitches in that 1 inning is 300% greater than that of what he's done in any other inning, similar to a person who normally runs a 5K every day suddenly jumping to a 15K and then back to a 5K the next day. It's not going to be good for the body and there is an increased chance for injury. Am I barking up the right tree with that? If so, are you simply talking about the first situation I described or more similar to the second one, just as a reliever? Yes, that is what I mean. There is added physiologic work on the body when you are under mental stress. The parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems control phsiological responses ie. herat rate, adrenal glands. When these are activated, under stress, the body wroks harder for the same activity.The running is a good example but you are using it slightly wrong. There is more work when you run a 5k against perceived mental stress ie. competition versus running out in front alone. Some running are under stress in the first situation, some in the second. It's still the same distance but mentally you feel stressed and your body is wroking harder for the same activity. This is where people may peform their best, if the stay in control, but it is also where the body is working harder. This concept applies to relievers as well. It's about the pressure and how hard you preceiving yourself to work as well as the actual physical work. another physical only scenario for this concept is more the way you were looking at it. Using the running example again. If you are used to running a 5K at 9:00 min/mile pace and all of a sudden in the 2nd mile you decide to take off and run a 5:00 minute mile. If you during this period of time you could cause damage to the tissue in your body. In this scenarion it's not the amount of work but the intensity that will cause injury. Either way you can cause tissue damage in the same overall amount of work.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 10:23 AM) I have to go back in tomorrow but at this point they think its some sort of cartilage shearing and it may require microfracture surgery. Is it the knee or hip? How are they going to do the microfracture through the soundwaves or athroscopy?

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 07:51 PM) http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles...football,26140/ That's a great articles. i hadn't seen it. Probably the only thing the body is designed more poorly for is to throw an object overhand such as a baseball.