ptatc

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 05:31 PM) If you're in a situation like last year, where you're doing everything possible to win, then fine, burn the guy in the bullpen like we did with Sale. But if we have time with a guy like Molina (and we do), there's zero reason to start all the arbitration clocks on him right now. He's incredibly raw, he's thrown probably fewer innings in his life than some guys have done in high school, and he's never been above AA. If he earns it, then we can talk next year about a rotation spot early in the season, even better after the super 2 deadline. There is zero reason to push this guy upwards aggressively if we go into this season having cut $25 million from the roster and traded away guys like we did. Save the service time and have him ready to go when he arrives. I thought Sept. callups don't get service time credit.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 05:07 PM) I don't think it is. He's pitched a total of 290 innings, period, with no high school or college background beforehand. He's barely reached double-A ball, only 22 innings at that level. He only threw 130 innings last year, and that was a jump up from 80 the year beforehand, so 150 total would still be being careful, and that's a full AA season. I really can't see any situation, no matter how much he dominates, where I'm going to want him seeing the bigs this year. If he rips up AA ball in the first half and then gets promoted and then rips up AAA for another 2 months, he's going to be right at what should be his innings limit, where actually having him make a start or two seems excessively risky and overkill. I still think he will get a look in the MLB at the end of the season. If they have to they will decrease his innings in the middle of the year to spread them out, which from a strengthening and endurance buolding perspective is a good idea.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:44 PM) What you need to remember though is that we're not "All in" this season. We're not sacrificing things like valuable Chris Sale pre arb years by trying to put the best MLB roster possible together. If we lose games this year because we're trying to stretch Sale out and develop him into a starter, well, the priority is turning Sale into a starter, not winning as many games as possible. Last season, we were still "All in" when that crap was happening. Lose the games this year if you have to, just make sure you develop the kids while doing so. If we were going to lose games in order to build up Peavy's arm, then Sale should have been starting at Charlotte, and we should have been selling harder at the deadline. I agree with you. However, I will bet that we will still see people on this board complaining about why Robin and Coop left him in even though he's shown that after 5 innings his ERA goes up 2 runs and his BAA is up 200 points.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:23 PM) They may push him to 175, but I said "150 good innings". I think he'll be breaking down past that. They'll still give him starts to keep him going, like they did with D1 back in 2007, but he'll clearly only have so much left. And I reiterate, I don't think Molina belongs anywhere near the big leagues this year. Especially with other options like Castro, Stewart, and Axelrod who can clean starts up if we need to. I think you'll see some of those "bad" innings ealy on when he's adjusting to starting in the MLB. He'll top out at 5 innings and people on this board will complain like they did at Peavy. He will need to build strength and endurance early on because he hasn't started with this intensity before.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 02:51 PM) I'd be half surprised if Sale put up 150 good innings, but I'll be really surprised if Viciedo comes out and puts up like a .900 OPS. Between being moved around from positions and the thumb injury last year, there's still development that needs to happen with him. Hopefully we can play him enough this year that he gets a chance to really do that developing. I'm going with 175. I think He'll get there this year. Then Molina will come up and clean up the last group of starts. I think this is KW's plan when he said that Molina will definitely see the show this year.

QUOTE (flavum @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 01:26 PM) Too many negative words and phrases from Sox personnel. Play as hard as you can, and maximize your talent. Period. I just don't want to hear them say "baseball is a game of failure". Yeah, I get it, but that shouldn't come out of your mouth. It's almost like they have a built in excuse for losing, which is just not a good thing to put in young player's minds. This is how the mentally strong players get. If you remember early in PK's career he had wild swings of success and failure because he couldn't deal with the amout of failure. You have to relize it's a game of failure and the ones who deal with it the best become the better players.

QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 02:54 PM) How do you get off on a technicality when that technicality isn't even written? Braun's lawyers convinced the arbiter, who obviously is not familiar with the process, that the samples were not secured. Which left reasonable doubt in his mind. This is why baseball thought they had an open and shut case. This is the common practice but the arbiter didn't think it was secure enough.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 26, 2012 -> 12:52 AM) 25 dollars to park for a Sox-Royals game. What a joke. Or Sox-Mariners. Wait. I thought the Royals have alot of young propects and are going to fun to watch this year. Isn't that the kind of team we're supposed to pay to see?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 24, 2012 -> 03:08 PM) First of all, I wasn't responding to you, so I didn't call you jaded. Secondly, this is completely out of character for Braun. I know you're livelihood is in the medical community but that doesn't mean that something funny didn't go on here. I am not assuming anyone did anything to make Braun look one way or the other. I'm saying everything anyone has ever said about the guy contradicts this test. You're telling me I'm jaded because I believe in the man instead of a test where the chain of custody was botched? Right. Sorry, I though you were referring to everyone who think he took PEDs as jaded. I've never met or really paid attention to Braun so I cannot comment on his character. He doesn't look or seem the type but science is science and in things like this it is rarely wrong. The only way realiistic way he didn't take take something that caused the sample to test positive is that someone tampered with it. This is would be the "something funny going on." Which is possible. However for this to happen you have to assume that someone intentionally tampered with the sample. Nothing has been reported about a problem with the actual test. So you either think the sample was tampered with, making him innocent or you think the sample was his and he took the substance. It could very well be that he took something that he didn't know would be classified as a PED, I doubt it with the levels at which he tested but it could happen. All I'm saying is that the proponderence of evidence shows he tested positive for a banned substance. If I was him I would say all the same things he is now. He got lucky and got away with it.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 24, 2012 -> 02:43 PM) There sure as f*** is a profile. He is already celebrated as one of the best players in the game. He signed a below-market contract basically through the end of his career, yet he is also set monetarily for life. By all accounts he is an extremely hard worker and a grounded, easy-going guy. He's young and in the prime of his career. He also has come out in the past against steroid and PED usage. I'm sorry that you're so jaded that you're going to consider everyone guilty before proven innocent, but I'm just not buying it here. It's not that I'm jaded as a matter of fact I think it's the other way around. I'm assuming that the collector did not tamper with the sample so the positive test is valid and Braun is guilty. You are assuming that someone intentionally tampered with the sample to make Braun look guilty. I think your view is more jaded by thinking that someone is out to get Braun by tampering with the sample. That is realistically the only way the positive test is wrong in all the samples.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 24, 2012 -> 02:28 PM) Ptatc, I agree completely, the MLB is using nonsense procedure, and that is not even getting into the fact they are using pee tests which are generally considered the least reliable. (As an aside, I know people who have definitely beat pee tests for drugs, just using $50 over the counter products)The whole thing comes down to MLB and having better procedures. We are talking a billion dollar a year industry, they can spend some money on this. The urine test is a very reliable and valid test for testing for the T/E ratio. The way the people you know that beat the urine test would not work in professional or olympic sports. They test for a wider range of masking agents and other substances than a regular drug test. As a matter of fact at the olympic level most athletes that are suspended get caught with masking agents (including in blood tests) then they do for getting caught with the actual banned substance. However, your main point is accurrate. It is up to baseball to close the loophole. The USOC has an entire branch to work through issues like this because the athletes are always coming up with new things, baseball should probably just work with thme instead of trying to re-create the wheel on thier own.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 24, 2012 -> 02:25 PM) Because Braun didnt need to prove tampering. He only needed to prove that MLB screwed up and therefore the test was invalid. No reason to go beyond when its unnecessary. That's why its entirely speculation. If this was a case where not only did Braun have to show "improper protocol" but he also had to show that he was "likely to prevail on the merits" it would be an entirely different scenario. But its like the "fruit of the poisonous tree" in criminal law, once it was improperly handled, all of the evidence is no longer reliable. There are ways to prevent this, but MLB just does not have a policy to protect against errors. (IE MLB could require every stadium to have a facility to store specimens indefinitely, that way there would have been another sample that had not been improperly handled to test against.) Simply put, MLB's own laziness lack of control caused this problem. If they are mad, they should be mad at themselves. This is the case. Although you are mixing the terms reliable and valid again. The test is still reliable however the result were made invalid due to the procedural violation. MLB needs to change the procedure to prevent this from happening again.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 24, 2012 -> 02:10 PM) None of this matters. The procedure wasnt followed, the test results are moot. We can all speculate as to whether there was actual tampering or not, but it really doesnt matter. If you believe that he is guilty, I doubt any of this will change your mind. It only matters if you think baseball needs to be cleaned up and PEDs hurt the game. If a player tests postitive but is allowed to play because of a procedural problem, it doesn't help the game. This instance of a player being able to play of a technicality needs to be examined and used as a learning tool to either improve the procedure so it doesn't happen again. If it is proven that he didn't take PEDs then the system worked and he was rightfully cleared of all wrong doing. I don't disagree with the decision. He should be allowed to play given the situation. However, I also think the protocol needs to change so it doesn't happen again because test need to occur throughout the week to catch the athletes that use the less potent but still PED that leave your system within 48 hours.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 24, 2012 -> 01:22 PM) Game, set, match, and f*** baseball. They continue to handle everything in the worst possible way. Listen, the events got screwed up and rendered the suspension null. This does not exonerate Braun from guilt of using and testing positive, and anyone with a brain should see that. MLB should have said "the case went to an arbiter as we collectively bargained, and the arbiter declared Braun eligible to play. This does not mean he did not fail a drug test, but we stand by the decision based on the agreement set forth". None of this being furious bulls*** and threatening to appeal the decision in Federal Court. MLB seems incapable of letting stories go away. The reason they won't let it go away is that most sports use a seaparate company to handle everything. MLB though they could create their own porcedures and could do it just as well. They don't want to admit that their procedures were declared the reason that Braun is getting off the hook.

QUOTE (PorkChopExpress @ Feb 24, 2012 -> 12:34 PM) So there's at least one way to taint it. And there's an unexplained 44 hour gap that the sample was held by someone who could taint it despite his having the opportunity to ship the sample at anytime after having taken it. In Braun's press conference, he just said that they consulted scientists who said a determined person could easily taint the sample. Despite some sources saying that his elevated testosterone ratio was not unusual, the fact that his test results showed his testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio was three times higher than any result in the history of baseball's program certainly raises suspicion. Add that to the fact that Braun showed no physical side effects of use, i.e., enhanced performance, based on records kept by the Brewers apart from this situation, and that he has been consistently good his whole career while not ever testing positive the other 25 times he's been tested, and I certainly cannot make the judgment that he is obviously a juicer. Of course it's possible. It's always possible. You could make this argruement for every single drug test ever done. Braun could have paid of the sample collector and they used someone else's urine. Maybe Braun's agent stopped the collector after the sample and paid the guy to keep it at home overnight so there would be this technicality and the guy still did his job. I've had reporters offer me lots of things to get info from training rooms so don't think that these things don't happen when there is this much money involved. You can always find a way to make excuses. The facts are that the sample tested positive. The procedure was followed except the collector kept the sample in his house, which he felt was secure over the weekend. Very few postive tests are ever over turned regardless of the sport. If the decision is overturned it's always on a procedural technicality. You can draw your on conclusion if you think that was his sample.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 24, 2012 -> 09:06 AM) Yup. Innocent until proven guilty. Welcome to the greatest county in the world. Yes but he lost alot in the civil trial that only required a preponderence of evidence. So much so that he had to break into a persons hotel room and kidnap them to get memorabilia back to raise money. This evetually landed him in jail like he deserved. Hopefully, Braun learned from this experience and doesn't try them for the playoffs again.

QUOTE (PorkChopExpress @ Feb 24, 2012 -> 10:59 AM) No there's not. What reasons are you aware of? That the sample tested positive for PED's? Due to improper handling, those test results may have been wrong. Braun has said as much this entire time. According to the legal analyst on Mike and Mike this morning, Braun offered to do a DNA test to prove that the sample wasn't even his, but MLB refused. There's no reason for an outside observer to make any kind of judgment except for an uneducated one, which leads to the lynching-type result I'm seeing in this thread. So many people have already determined he is a juicer based on nothing but speculation and the fact that he performed well in his sport. I would think he has a huge libel/slander claim against whoever leaked the test results. Jack Burton here is wrong on so many levels. The "may have been wrong" is the key. The T/E levels that were found in the urine could not have been made by someone who wasn't taking PEDs. The only way practical way to taint this is to have someone else take PEDs and substitute the sample. Braun's lawyers knows this and this is wwhy they came up with the "I'll take a DNA test" idea. They also know that if MLB called their bluff that the union would step in and prevent this and a massive legeal battle would start. Which neither side wants. It would also start a precedent for every player to use the "DNA" defense. MLB will just need to suck it up on this one because their agent screwed up the procedure. I'm sure they are hoping that Braun got scared enough and he'll clean himself up.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 01:56 PM) If I were Robin... LINEUP De Aza, CF Morel, 3B Dunn, DH Konerko, 1B Viciedo, RF Ramirez, SS Rios/Fukudome, LF AJP, C Beckham, 4 BENCH Flowers: C Lillibridge: 2B, RF/LF Kuhn: 3B, 2B, SS Danks: OF ROTATION Danks Peavy Floyd Sale Humber BULLPEN Reed (CL) Crain (SU) Thornton (SU) Ohman (MR) Santiago/FA crowd (LOOGY) Stewart (MR-LR) Some explanations... --This team has no good 2-slot hitter, I picked Morel, but it could also be Ramirez or Beckham, depending on how their seasons all go. Morel is going to be a very good #2 hitter. High contact rate with a good eye and a low strike rate. He'll have some power but not great. Leave Ramierez lower where his hitting capabilities fit better to driving in runs.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 08:28 PM) Thats what I thought, so the test is already very unreliable (in terms of drug tests its the worst reliability, 1 is hair and 2 is blood), there was a reading that was far outside of the normal range (even for failed tests,, at least thats what I believe I read when it came out) and there was poor handling of the sample. Surprised that it was 2-1 Urine tests are valid in regards to what he tested positive for. Reliability is the reason you have the protocols which must be exactly fiollowed for a given test with mulitiple samples. He can say whatever he wants. He is guilty of taking banned substances. He knows it and the lawyers know it. This is why they attacked the procedure and not the actual tests.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 05:26 PM) Braun, correctly, got off on a technicality (improper storage of a sample). However, it's still very clear that he was caught using a synthetic substance. He used PEDs, cheated, but was correctly exonerated here. This is correct. If there is any banned substance in a sample you have to suspend the player. However, you MUST follow the protocol for testing the sample to prevent any tampering. I have no doubt he is guiluty based on previous information but he should not be suspended based on the idiot sample collector's screw up.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 02:25 PM) Exactly. That was one of Theo's loopholes. Now he has to find advantages the same way everyone else does...good scouting, rather than gaming the system through loopholes. I agree. I lie sports where it's talent that wins (on the field and front office) not just he who spends the most money wins. I liked when football put in the hard cap. I wish baseball would. I know it won't happen but the changes are making it more competitive for all teams.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 02:24 PM) Welcome to the return of irrelevance. This team is going to suck and steal zero headlines. Is it really important if they steal headlines. I'm beginning to see why you like Ozzie so much. With a moderately talented team that most likely will not contend for the division and Venture as the manager, this team will not be in the headlines (except for Cowley exclaiming how right he was and what Ozzie says from Florida).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 01:13 PM) http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds...arrowing_t.html Jenks is lucky he isn't paralyzed from the waist down. If the infection truly is in the spine he could be looking at osteomyelitis in his vertebrae. With a guy that size spinal fractures are a real possibility. Hopefully they caught the infection in time if not, he's screwed. He may not be able to stand upright let alone play baseball. If the infection got into his spinal fluid, he could die or just go into a coma. I would like to be his attorney if the bone spur was truly left partially excised. You can make the case of ruining a 10's of millions of dollars player. $$$$$$$$$$$$$

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 11:11 AM) Sale, Flowers, Floyd. Did Sale lose weight? His is thin. Look at the "chicken" lower legs. That's a Jack McDowell physique.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 22, 2012 -> 11:58 AM) No doubt about it. It's always a good thing when millionaires show up to play baseball. Are there any other kinds of baseball players? I think there are only rookies and millionaires.