ptatc

There was a show in the late 80's or early 90's called the Nutt House. It was histerical. Cloris Leachman ran this old hotel. The bits were great. It was produced by Mel Brooks I believe. It lasted less than a season.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 9, 2011 -> 03:42 PM) Can you actually worsen a damaged nerve in your leg? Or is it one of those things that "if can handle the pain you can play through it" type of situations? Yes you can. The most likely nerve that would be damaged is the common peroneal nerve which winds around the top part of the fibula. If you feel the outside of your knee it is the large bump you feel. It is very superficial and it very susceptible to compression injuries at this point. This nerve innervates all of the muscle which lift your foot. An injury here can cause "drop foot." It is difficult to run or even walk with this condition. He could hit because his foot is planted but couldn't control the foot once it's off the ground. The nerve is commonly injured in 2 ways. It can be hit directly which causes a neuropraxia and the nerve needs to heal. You need to not stretch it by keeping the knee and ankle from going to either end of range of motion. The other way is the inflammation from a bruise is compressing the nerve causing similar problems. To heal this you need to calm down the inflammation. This is usually done with meds and rest. It's possible they triend the meds and it wasn't helping as much as they wanted so they added more rest time. I'm not positive this is the nerve involved but it's the most likely. Regardless of the nerve involved, the treatment is usually the same.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 03:13 PM) So we have established that players' performance may be impacted by negative treatment from fans. The statistical evidence in our sample size (this season) doesn't show much of a correlation. Statistical evidence is much more representative of what actually occurs during baseball games than Ptatc's anecdotal evidence. All we need now is Robert Stack and we can have our own episode of "Unsolved Mysteries." don't go there unless you've run a power analysis to determine what sample size you need. If you are truly going to run stats that is the first step. Nothing else matters until you've done that. Any statistical analysis is invalid until you know what sample size is needed. Afterall who ever heard of looking at a person's behaviour with a qualitaive study as opposed to a quantitative study? Everyone. How do you know that a players performance wouldn't have improve if they weren't booed. How do you know that a players performance wouldn't have decreased if they weren't cheered and given more confidence? Your numbers will not tell you any of those factors. Qualitative information will tell you more about a person than the qualitaitve analysis.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 03:02 PM) Everything sounded extremely anecdotal as far as I gathered. he didn't say how many or who he actually talked to and what specifically was discussed. How you turned that into "fans booing is the reason we suck at home" is beyond me. If you really want to know it's the Milwaukee Brewers from 1987-1989 and the Florida Marlins minor league system from 1994-1996. There are too many players to list but if you look up the rosters you can put the names in. As to what was specifically discussed it was everyday during the season while I was working with them, the injured ones more than the healthy ones but usually everyone on the team at least once a day during the season. However, I'm sure there are numbers somewhere that'll say that I just can't figure out how a person feels when he is talking to you. I know you don't feel (sorry I can't tell how you feel by a discussion) I know you don't think that how people treats others effects them or how they go about their daily lives but it does. I don't know why I feel the need to defend this but the players are people and their performance is effected on how they are treated. It of course is not an entire team as everyone is different and reacts differently. But to deny that the players are effected by how they are treated is wrong. I've said all I can, take it for what it's worth.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 02:53 PM) I would have sworn we've covered this already in today's class. There is little to no statistical evidence to prove what you're arguing, which isn't surprising, because as someone else has pointed out, it is most likely only noise statistically. In fact, the players who show the largest disparity between home and road are those who don't get negative treatment at home at all. Finally, the player you swear revels in negative treatment, because "he talks about it alot," AJ, is by far a better player at home this season than on the road. another factor you may be missing is the press. Fans aren't the only ones telling them how bad they are. It's in every paper, it's on the news, it's on the colbert report. Do you think that magically the player forgets everything when they are on the road. Geography makes them forget how they were treated yesterday. This is only about home and road. Human behaviour is not tied to timeframes either. I never said that is was only home or only away just that players talk about it and are effected by it. I know you don't agree but people are influenced by the reaction of others around them.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 02:46 PM) The problem is you really have no quantifiable information to prove anything. Hanging out in the locker room does not prove a thing. When players hang their head and are dejected by the way the fans treat them, it effects them. Human behaviour is rarely quantifiable and if you think it can be your wrong. No I don't have numbers to prove that behaviour can change numbers. But you can see by a player's body language if he is confident and ready or unfocused and not ready. You cannot judge everything by number. Not everything is a quantitative study when it comes to people most studies are qualitative in nature. This is because people cannot be reduced to numbers. The players aren't open about this in the locker room where it can be heard and disseminated by reporters or many others there. However, in the training room where no one else is allowed they will talk about it and let loose. I did more than hang out in a locker room I worked with these guys for hours everyday and got to know them quite well. They would tell us stuff they wouldn't even tell the coaches. Believe what your numbers say but player performance is influenced by fans reactions.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 02:37 PM) No. Most people would agree with you. And most are wrong. Working at a university I find that to be the case most often. Most people take a little bit of information and perceive it to mean whatever they want. Instead of getting all of the information and allowing everything to form a a more inclusive picture.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:54 PM) If he wants others to show up to watch in my building he's going to have to buy the beer. This is getting better and better... Only if we get to throw it at you.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:48 PM) So who is going to let me berate them at work to test out and see if this theory holds any water? Don't forget to do it out in the middle of a room where everyone else can see them and the focus is on them. Also make an announcement before hand so everyone knows that person will be out there alone.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:36 PM) First of all, that really says nothing about what is really going on in his mind when he is playing... And secondly, that is exactly my point. There is really no causal link anyone can establish between the fans' behavior and the player's performance. I would guess there is a larger incidence of referees/umpires falling victim to the influence of the fans and having an impact than the players... when dealing with people there is rarely conclusive evidence to say anything in terms of causal relationships unless you run a true double blind, random sample study. In MLB clubhouses the players will talk about how they are treated by fans. It effects players in different ways. It can effect their play if they take it personally. I've seen it happen to many players in slumps. Players do react to fans. Remember when a white sox player went into the stand in Milwaukee because of what a fan said? It does effect them and can effect their play.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:37 PM) But they didn't start booing until June. So you're telling me the team just sucked for some mysterious reason in April and May, was about to completely turn things around but the fans stopped that from occurring because they started to occasionally boo? No. What I'm saying is that once the players were playing bad, they fans booed them. Booing effects players and this can contribute to a players performance. I'm not saying it caused the whole year. I've even said it is no way the only reason they are playing poorly. all I'm saying is that fans effect the players and this can effect their performance. To think otherwise is short sighted and wrong. These are prima donna people not robots.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:32 PM) But does he really? He has a .604 OPS on the road and an .817 OPS at home.... If you had ever met him, you would know he does. He talks about it alot.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:29 PM) Why does Rios have better numbers at home if he's getting booed? They certainly aren't good numbers so maybe they would be better. This is not a black and white variable that you can apply to everyone in every situation like so many like to do. All I'm saying is that if spent any amount of time in a MLB clubhouse, you would know that the fans can do do effect players which in turn can effect their play.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:29 PM) I wonder why AJ isn't hitless on the road since they boo him in every at bat wherever he goes. because he is a@# who enjoys that kind of thing. Most people in life aren't happy to make others miserable, he seems to enjoy it.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:22 PM) lol. Well it's a good thing Rios, Dunn, Beckham, Morel, etc, don't play for the Phillies, Mets, Yankees or Red Sox. If the booing here has any affect on them whatsoever, my goodness, they'd have to be institutionalized playing in those environments every day. As long as the team they are playing was winning the boos wouldn't be as bad and it wouldn't effect them as much. However, this doesn't apply to just those guys. All players are effecting to some extent. The only team you listed that is losing is the Mets. I'm sure if we looked at the team, there would be players in the same situation. Rios was effected by the fans in Toronto, he didn't even need to go to a high pressure environment to fold.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:23 PM) Re-read the post. It absolutely is a fallacy. i read the post. And while I agree it isn't the only determining factor, your implying it doesn't effect their play, which is wrong.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:16 PM) The issue here is that some people seem to be arguing this logical proof: Some players are affected by negative treatment by the fans. The team has significantly underperformed at home versus on the road this season. Ergo, the team has significantly underperformed at home versus on the road this season because of negative treatment by the fans. There is nowhere near enough evidence to support that conclusion. It's a fallacy. Carry on. It's not a fallacy. I also don't think it is the only factor. Maybe they see the HR stats and swing for the fences all the time, you knows. However, as the season has gone on, I have no doubt that it is a contributing factor. Again, not that they don't deserve it.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 01:12 PM) I'm sure it affects them, and I don't believe I said otherwise. But they fully deserve the boos they get, and to blame the fans for it in any way is laughable. I suppose fans should sit on their hands and only remove them to politely clap each time a player has a success. Otherwise, deathly quiet. No, if you read the post, I agree they deserve to be booed, if someone is so inclined. The offense has been awful. Your previous post made it sound like the fans have no effect on the players. That is what I was commenting on. There is no doubt some of the players particularly the hitters deserve all they get. I got my Bears tickets in the mail and I can now begin booing them in person on Sat.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 8, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) It's always anything to deflect the blame from the people actually responsible with you, isn't it? As long as it's something that reflects negatively on the Sox or the White Sox franchise as a whole, you'll make an excuse that it's somebody else. Now it's the fans because we're such big meanies. I mean, seriously. You can't be f***ing serious with this argument. You can't be sitting there at your computer and actually believing what you are writing. You simply can't. I don't know what it is about you and a few other posters on this site, but you never attack the players, managers, or their performances. Instead, you take the aggression and disappointment with the team and you direct it at the posters and other fans. Players do listen to the fans and it does bother them. They discuss it in the locker room before and after the game. It does effect their play even though try to ignore it. It obviously didn't effect the whole season bit as the difficulties steam rolled through the season it can compound the problem. I'm not saying they don't deserve it because many players have had horrible years. Most of these guys were coddled their whole lives and when someone like Dunn is thrown into a spotlight and doesn't perform, they often don't know how to deal with it. These aren't robots. They're usually prima donnas who are more sensitve then the average person. For you to think that it doesn't effect them as mutli-million dollar prima donnas is laughable.

QUOTE (The Critic @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 10:50 AM) Maybe they should take a page from their own book and implement "dynamic payment". If you're a player performing so horribly that no one wants to see them (Adam Dunn comes to mind), you get the lowest tier of payment. If you're performing at an All-Star level (see Paul Konerko), you get the highest tier. Then you can assign payment to the rest of the players at pre-determined payment levels in between. Hey, if it works to extort fans who want to see "prime" or "premier" teams, it must be good enough for the players, too. JR tried this with the "play for pay" contracts in the late 80's. It didn't go over to well. A few signed them. Dave Gallagher was one if my memory is correct.

Got to meet George Lucas at the EAA air show this past weekend. He's a great guy to talk to. One of the nicest celebrities ever even with the "I"ve got to go" time crunch.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 2, 2011 -> 02:04 PM) Then I would take him to a minor league game. You can get to know most (well, not the first round draft picks, they've already developed an attitude) of the players personally....get autographs, catch a foul ball...the promotions and contests are fun for the kids. It's a much purer and more enjoyable form of baseball in many ways, because you see all these kids chasing the dream and even though only 3-4% are going to make it, the feeling is just completely different. I really like the minor league games. When I worked for the Kane county cougars, I took my kids to almost every game. They really liked it. It was a much more fun atmosphere. The only downside is that the quality of baseball just isn't quite there. There still isn't anything quite like a major league baseball game to watch.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 2, 2011 -> 01:58 PM) I pity your soul.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 2, 2011 -> 09:04 AM) I just want to hear Rongey spinning any reason to go to a White Sox game for the rest of the season (well, at least until Viciedo comes back up) if we go 1-5 or 2-4 the next six games. Enjoying watching a baseball game with my son. Teaching him to keep score. My enjoyment of baseball isn't tied to winning. Granted it's more fun if they win that day but that isn't the only reason. A day at the ballpark is better than a day almost anywhere else.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 05:21 PM) Yes but you'd think the stat people on here would be worshiping CQ cause of the stat mentioned. Someone finally understands the limitations of sabermetrics and wrote a very good article about it. http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2011/7/20/22...th-sabermetrics