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QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 12:35 PM) Vertebrae. I believe its considered more serious than Crede's not really. It sounds like a spondylolithesis. This is where one of the vertebrae is slipping froward on another causing stress, disc and nerve problems. This problem can be fixed through bone grafts and hardware to correct the slipping. It's like someone says "a fracture is better than a sprain" because the bone will heal stronger than the ligament. Same principle. It would be a similar surgery and rehab. Just the added 6-8 weeks of bone healing. The rehab for just a disc surgery would overlap this time frame anyway. He should have a good recovery, as good as chance as anyone with lumbar surgery.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 12:00 PM) No, because there is no empirical evidence that any of these guys did roids. They have no tested positive, and some of them were only named because the Mitchell investigators asked interviewees who they "thought" was on steroids. There never will be empirical evidence. Most of them will be linked to HGH. HGH can only be detected through blood tests, currently. No union allows blood tests, including the NFL. This is why it can all be refuted and there will never be proof.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 11:58 AM) Hes a 1B. The 3B hopes are all but gone, his back is worse than Crede's frankly. He would be a good DH/1B for a team to take a flier on. Anyone know what his back problem was or what type of surgery he had? I'm not familiar with what happened.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 10:27 AM) I've always said this to my friends. KW's immaturity shows how average his intelligence really is. He's no smarter than Joe Schmoe down the street. I know a lot of brilliant people are arrogant, but KW doesn't fall under that category with me. Actually, the behavior most people associate with "immaturity" can be a sign of intelligence not average intelligence. It comes from getting frustrated when other of less intelligence around you cannot understand or comprehend what you are saying or doing. Not to say that KW is necessarily intelligent but your assumption that immaturity=average intelligence is inaccurrate.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 10:13 AM) I do understand that you can't protect everyone. But I'd like to know why you choose to protect Andy Gonzalez over Fernando Hernandez. They probably didn't consider either worth keeping. If Hernandez was protected, he probably would have been the one non-tendered instead of Gonzalez. Either way both would be gone from the system as it appears they have other plans for that roster spot. So it really doesn't matter who was protected and who wasn't, they were both on the bottom of the totem pole.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 07:18 AM) So lets see, KW has a team that was 6 losses away from being the worst in baseball on the major league level. His farm system ranks next to last in baseball. He has the payroll up over $100 million, and he thinks the upgrade of Cabrera over Uribe, Quentin, Linebrink plus a CF like Crisp while taking away Garland from the rotation and putting Floyd and Danks in there for a full season will cure all that ails this team. He is arrogant I'll give him that. Probably not very smart either. Do you honestly believe that none of Dye, Konerko and Thome will hit above .274? They all had bad seasons last year if none of them rebound I don't care what he added in the offseason the team will be bad. If at least two of them do the team will be better than last year.

QUOTE(retro1983hat @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 09:01 AM) Yes, KW was the architect responsible for the giant fall our team has had since the ASB 2006. He deserves credit for 2005, but also blame for 2006, 2007 and our last-place 2008 finish. Didn't the Sox win 90 games in 2006? I hardly call that a failure for which he needs to be fired. You can use opinion and revisionist history but ultimately he will be judged on his record. I'm not sure what the White Sox record is under his tenure but I would suspect it is a a pretty good winning percentage.

The locker room rumors of recent vintage were Mags and Rowand.

QUOTE(bighurt4life @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 11:40 PM) Sounds to me like we're about to trade minor league players for someone who's going to be on the 25 man roster, or else why keep those guys around and not protect some of the players taken in rule 5? Maybe because they didn't believe the guys taken in the Rule 5 draft were worth keeping.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 08:43 AM) ESPN RADIO: ROGER CLEMENS!!!!! HAHAHAHA He is the one that has always been talked about in the locker rooms. Since he looks to be retired, maybe he will be in it but I still doubt it.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 09:11 PM) I'd put money on it that 15-20 players named will be no name Mets bench players. (AKA: Timo) There's going to be an awful lot of disappointed people when the report is made public tomorrow. Yes. 80 names only when over 100 tested positive alone during the "trial" drug testing in 2003. Most of the names that truly used will not be in there. My guess is mostly retired players who this won't effect.

I think too many people are sellling Brain Anderson short. He will be a good MLB player but I'm not sure if it will be with this team.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 02:49 PM) 5 year deal, mlb.com is reporting. I've never been happier to not acquire a player. Time to get creative KW. Interesting timing as well. I agree. This would not have been the piece to help the Sox.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 09:43 AM) The count is a real simple formula. You can pretty much tell what kind of outing he will have based on his arm slot versus righties. If he is mainly arm slot high, dropping down on 2 strikes to put the hitter away he will be good; if he is mainly side arm to righties, he will get rocked. Hopefully the Count is energized and is working out his lower half and his back. I still believe that there was a back issue last year, there is no reason for a pitcher to completely change his mechanics this far into ones career unless you are compensating for an injury. Dropping down is a classic back or leg stress reliever. I would rather see him up top more so he can get more of a downward action on his splitter and keep his fastball within the zone. If he does that, he should be a pretty good pitcher. Dropping down can also be a compensation for shoulder pain. When the humeral head rides up and compresses into the acromion the rotator cuff, bursa and labrum become pinched. If a pitcher starts to drop down there is usually an injury to one of these tissues. However since JC as always had this in his arsenal I wouldn't worry about it. Dropping down also decreases pitch velocity while increasing lateral movement on the pitch, this becomes the slider injury to the elbow. In retrospect I think this is what happened to Garcia.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 02:11 PM) Serious question here... because so many people seem to have this opinion, would you all rather return to the Ron Schuler years where we'd maybe make one decent trade a winter, but you could pretty much be assured that we wouldn't be after any major players? I know the knock on Kenny is all of the sudden is that he is "missing" on all of the players, but the fact that he is chasing them, even when the odds are against him in all of these cases just tells me he is willing to try to do whatever it takes to try to improve. Think about it. Torii Hunter was supposedly going to get blown away from this huge offer from Texas. You all heard the impression Kenny made on Hunter, and how close he was to coming here. Miguel Cabrera was supposedly going to the Angels. In steps Kenny, and he was leading the race, until Florida changed the terms and insisted we take on Dontrelle Willis. Fukudome was supposedly only going to consider the Cubs, yet Kenny goes out and matches the Cubs offer, only to fail because the guy wanted to pad his own ego with the #1 and having to play RF, plus being the #1 Japanese player on the northside. What do these all have in common? Kenny fought for all three of the guys dispite the odds. A guy like Ron Schuler would have never been heard from on any of these stages. He would have been happy to plug in some rookies, and some type b/c free agents, and move on having no expecations of anything for the next season. Its insane to hold someone's work ethic against them. Its almost like people would be happier if we weren't ever mentioned at all in connection with players. Give me the guy going for the gold ring, instead of the guy who is content to see how long he can go around on the merri-go-round. i wholehearted agree. I don't think some of the people here remember the schuler era or like me have chosen to wipe it out of my mind.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 11:42 AM) Williams won't be fired. Look up "Jerry Krause" for details.... that's right. As long as your loyal, have a plan and are successful, you will be around. If KW has multiple unsuccessful years ala JK then he will be gone, not after only a few bad seasons. The Sox had back to back 90 win seasons before last year. Now we need to see how the next 2-3 go before KW is in danger of losing his job.

QUOTE(scenario @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 07:30 PM) Why would it be a bad PR move?? Would ticket sales go down? Would people write fewer stories about the Sox or give us less attention in the media? Would it undo all the goodwill that KW and Ozzie have been building? Besides, we've got alot of 'boyscouts' on our team. I don't think adding Bonds would taint the public image of our club that badly. People didn't hate the Giants because he played in San Francisco. They may not like the player, but it's unlikely to carry over to the team. And as VanceLaw said... winning is great PR. The bad PR would be that next to only maybe Gary Sheffield he is the biggest piece of crap of a human being I've ever met in professional sports and that's saying alot. You couldn't find a person (and I use that term lightly) that would anger an entire fan base quickly. I guarantee any knowledgeable fan would dislike him as soon as he started playing.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 02:08 PM) I wish we could be in the National League where we'd have a fighting chance! Literally: Here, it's hard to have a fighting chance with fifty cents, restrictions with Scott Boras and no farm, I guess. Doesn't help when the huge payrolls are in the East, Detroit's spending money, four of the better GMs in baseball are in your division and the division is stacked. Which are the four Dombrowski, Shapiro..........

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:38 AM) He'd be going from playing in two of the best hitting parks to the worst. I look forward to seeing him against Jake Peavy 6 times a season. Right now, I have a feeling though that Juan Pierre might be our CF next season. Yuck, it's not the worst option but it is hardly a good one either.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:42 AM) Whether you've seen enough or not isn't necessarily the question. Right now, the D-Rays had seen enough to judge that Garza was worth one of the top position prospects in the game. Broadway certainly is not at that level of value. good point, if we were in the same discussions for the trade.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:23 AM) In professional sports "ceilings" and talent outweigh production. The flaw in White Sox drafting is to draft projectable guys not ceiling guys hence they pass on Garza for Broadway, how did that work out. Teams want the flash which Bedard can give you as oppossed to the production which Buerhle and Garland give. Has Bedard ever thrown 200 innings in a season? Is it a flaw or just different philosophy? I haven't seen enough of Garza or Broadway to make a determination yet.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:13 AM) I'd like that to happen too, but it appears KW is set going into the season with both Danks and Floyd in the rotation. Colon and Garcia should be able to find starting gigs somewhere else. I think if KW is going to take a flier on someone, it'll be with a guy like Clement. I also wouldn't mind taking a flier on Jon Lieber seeing as his injury last season was in his foot and not his back, shoulder, or elbow like these other guys. Although, Jon may find a guaranteed starting gig elsewhere. Garcia won't be ready until at least June after the labrum surgery this past year.

This will be a big time gamble for whoever signs him to this deal. I would be very hesitant to sign this deal. Hopefully the scouts have worked overtime on this one. Half of this board will rip KW whichever way it goes. He either signed him to a bad deal or was too cheap to beat the other teams.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 07:16 PM) Well known to treat their players like s***. The cubs, phillies, and pick your poison in NYC are by far the worst fans to their players. The cubs loonies can unravel a player by March. I agree. However that is not the international perception. They are the powerful and marketable New York teams or the lovable Cubbies. Eveyone in the Asian markets loves those teams.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 06:28 PM) I don't get this philosophy. Who says we couldn't get MORE for him than what we got? Why do people assume we could have gotten MORE in every trade? KW always settles for the wrong package in trades. Looking at other teams message boards, thier "fans" say the same thing. The Angels message board couldn't believe that all they got for a gold glove shortstop who is really coming into his own with hitting was a barely average innings innings starter when they already had 5-6 good starting pitchers. Unless you know of another offer on the table that was significant better than this one, of course.