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As many people have pointed out he won more games than he should have by the way he pitched. If this happens it should please the people here who like to sell high. I know when I tlaked to people last year no one thought he would resign here because he wanted to go further west. Maybe he and KW had an agreement, you sign a good deal, pitch here one more year to try to get another ring and I'll trade you next year. I don't know for sure but almost everyone last year was surprised that he signed in Chicago. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!! Shut up KW is on a roll!!!!!! (or at least he might be)

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 04:08 PM) My statement is more in reference to the infamous "Don't worry, Coop will fix him" clan that existed prior to last season. Cooper is a good pitching coach...but he's not a magician. i agree. I'm just saying that they aren't alone in thinking this. And I'm sure things like Cooper getting exposure on the radio with a regular spot (with 670 last year if I remember right) doesn't diminish that ego at all.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 03:56 PM) MLB execs have a short memory, and they saw how great Hill pitched in the 2nd half last season. Also, he has the great K/9 inning ratio going which is one of those golden stats that always raises a prospect's prestige. I agree. This is one of the most significant things they look at from the stats side. Probaly only second to K/BB.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 03:54 PM) I believe that KW and Cooper are arrogant, and they believe they can turn any pitcher around. The problem is that while they do have some magic (Thornton, Contreras, etc), we also have seen some pitchers regress and no solution was in sight (Cotts, Buehrle, etc). That can be said for about 100% of the managers/coaches in the league. In all sports for that matter but moreso in baseball. I've done it myself after biomechanical analysis of a pitcher after a lab session. That's why players with "potential" bounce from team to team because everyone knows they can fix them. I think your example of MB is premature. He has had only one bad year. Cotts on the other hand has a history of control problems they ironed out for a year. I think they got what they could for him and I'll bet there was some differences between Cooper/Staff and Cotts on either how or what to throw. that may explain the reason to dump him.

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 03:33 PM) http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...ex.jsp?c_id=cws You can't tell me that that arm motion there on the front page by Aardsma won't lead to future injury problems. Actually that low 3/4 is preferred by many people. It doesn't put too much stress on the shoulder or the elbow. I still personally teach more of an over the top motion but not everyone can throw the same.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 03:03 PM) Did I just hear that right on the Score, Hendry saying he might think about putting Cotts in the starting rotation?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! it was also said that he has 4 major league pitches.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 01:47 PM) Dude, Ozzie Guillen is still our manager. Lefties could hit .600 off of a lefty pitcher and righties could hit .050 off of him, and Ozzie would still still use that pitcher as a LOOGY. Good point. I remeber the Embree experiment "lefties kills this guys but because he throws left handed I'll pitch him any way." Let's hope last year was a learning experience for Ozzie. Afterall he still is relatively new to managing and like young players he might learn a few things.

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 01:42 PM) With Jamie Walker going to the Orioles, who will be our other lefty in the pen? We're putting a lot of faith in Thornton, who is hardly a lock to pitch even as well as he did last year. Not saying Cotts was untouchable. Am saying we need another lefty in the pen not named Boone Logan. Lefties hit Aardsmaa at a .196 clip last year. Maybe he is our option against lefties?????

QUOTE(wsdp @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 01:24 PM) He worked with Sheff in Florida - they have a relationship off the field and Leyland's a no non-sense guy... not sure where you're coming from... I've worked with him in the past as well. Leyland was with Sheffield for one year before he left. Leyland may be able to deal with him but the other players will not.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 01:22 PM) Neal better pick out a nice towel to throw in ST. This pretty much guarentees Tommy John surgery for Neal after next year. alot of people believe that with the Tom House/Rothschild/Homewood Flossmoor theory of pitching mechanics and training. i happen to be one of them who disagree with thier philosophy.

QUOTE(wsdp @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 01:12 PM) As for Sheff's "clubhouse" issues - Leyland was happy as a pig in slop... he's a large supporter of Sheff and will surely keep him in check in the clubhouse... The Tigers clubhouse was very happy go lucky last year - IRod, Mags, and the like all got along because Leyland changed the attitude... there were never any problems in their clubhouse last year. That will change this year. He doesn't have clubhouse issues he has "quality (or lack thereof) of human being issues"

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 01:01 PM) The funny thing is over on nsbb they think that Cotts is the answer to their starter woes. Wait till the wind blows out, and Mr. one pitch is gooving fastballs down the cock. But then again, the twits in the stands who follow that rubish they call a team will be good and drunk by that point. I don't know as a starter he'll throw the pitch of the game. Oh' that's right we're talking about the World's Largest Out door Beergarden here.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 12:09 PM) What I find troubling is that we give up on a young guy after one bad season. I guess KW thinks the league figured him out and he won't/can't return to 2005 form. I tend to disagree and believe that Cotts will really be solid out of the pen again very soon. The same could be said as to why some people value him so highly after only one good season. He has always has trouble with giving up too many BB. It 2005 he didn't. Perhaps the Sox figured that was the abberation and got what they could while they could. If KW though he could get more if he waited, I'm sure he would have. The Sox must've saw something they liked with Vazquez. Remember the AA Barons probably saw a lot of him last year.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 11:52 AM) Don't like it at all, I think KW just sold low on Cotts. Do you mthink KW took the worst trade he could find? There were rumors Cotts was on the block and I'm going to believe that KW got the best deal he could. We may value Cotts higher but obviously GMs in MLB didn't. Now the big question is why they felt he needed to be traded. I suspect this will be the beginning of a group of deals.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 11:00 AM) Um, isn't the only reason why we'd actually need a new CF the hitting? As far as I could tell based on last year, the only thing we'd do defensively in CF is going to be to downgrade compared to our supposed starter. I don't think they were very many CF substantially better then BA especially the price it would be to acquire the individual who would be better defensively.

We need young pitching depth back in a trade not hitting. I know this is a topic discussed in many threads but I think that is what wins and what KW will acquire.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 09:57 PM) Well, then we might as well get rid of Fields ASAP. I do have the same concern with him. That's why I wouldn't be against trading him. I'm not saying either won't be good in the majors it's just that the high K rate shows they will have big problems adjusting if they can at all. That's why I would include them in a trade if you can get pitching for them.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 09:41 PM) But Young is an OBP guy. His isolated plate discipline (OBP - AVG) is close to .100 over his minor league career. His OBP the past two seasons in the minors has been .377 and .363. So really, the only knock on Young is his K's. He's arguably as complete a player as you'll find in all of the minors (or, in recently-graduated-to-the-majors players). Possibly. I still don't trust guys who K that much in the minors to translate that succees to the majors. It's possible but I still agree with the trade that added starting pitching and the flexibility to trade one of those this year.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 09:36 PM) http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2663691 Thanks, you beat me to it.

There are rumors that Frank will sign with the Blue Jays. I couldn't get used to him wearing green/gold. He'll look awful in the blue. Here's hoping he gets the 500 HR then retires. This team jumping is killing me.

John. Mostly for the writing. Then the voice. Paul was the better musician. George was a hell of a guitar player but didn't go too much beyond that. Ringo....well he was the elder statesman.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 07:41 PM) Really? Players who play above average defense in CF while stealing 20-30 bases and hit 20-30 HRs plus a crapload of doubles are "really nothing special"? Heh... shows what I know. There's nothing wrong with that if you like the Earl Weaver all or nothing offense. I just prefer the players with higher ave and OBP (too clog up the bases) to compliment the speed. Just a matter of preference.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 04:53 PM) Or it means that if you trade one of your best hitting prospects in decades (Young) due to having faith in another player (Anderson), you better not give up on him after one year just because your manager is an arrogant idiot. there are many levels to that statement including the manager. However, the basic premise is wrong. Young was not the best hitting prospect in decades. A low average hitter with a high strikeout rate is not the best hitting prospect in decades. Maybe a guy who won an MVP in two different leagues such as Crede would be much higher. I think Young will be more like the player most people compare him to: Mike Cameron. A very good defensive player who will steal bases and hit homeruns but relagated to support roles because of an all or nothing approach and will move around the league alot. Not a bad ballplayer but nothing really special either.

QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 05:21 PM) The posting fee for Ichiro was $13 million dollars. A little different than $51.1 If you have the money who cares?

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 04:37 PM) Verstehen? Ich verstehst du.