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Where did this quote come from? In the Phil Rogers chat for BA it mentions Honel had an elbow surgery but it was not a Tommy John ligament transplant surgery.

QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 06:37 PM) How about this season's Hawk win total + next season vs. 07 Sox? How about the 06-07 Blackhawks (we'll go with points even not wins) + 06-07 Bulls vs. the 2007 Sox?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 01:16 PM) While 99.9% of the comments in this thread make perfect sense, the fact of the matter is you don't have to be very good in the NL to win. You can't say the Cubs with a healthy Lee and Soriano in the line-up aren't capable of winning 82-87 games, something that would get you 3rd or 4th place in the AL. You get on a roll in the playoffs, and you sneak a world title, like the Cardinals did this year. The Cardinals were one of the worst teams I saw at USCF this year, but they will get rings. Two out of the three Cardinal pitchers who started at Comiskey were not on the playoff roster. And they didn't have Rolen either. They did get on a playoff roll but they also got healthy at the right time. They were good enough to hold on in the regular season which wouldn't have happened in the AL.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 12:49 PM) Agree, but there is no way in hades the Orioles would deal a talent like Erik Bedard. No way...even they can't be that stupid. That's why I don't see them as a good fit for a trade. However, KW can work some pretty creative 3 way trades that may involve other teams.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 12:03 PM) I actually wouldn't be surprised if KW just kept him and give him one more shot at it. With that said he would probably look to upgrade at CF somehow to balance out the lineup more. Patterson is intriuging, i wonder what Baltamore would want for him? Would you guys trade Owens for him? Now that the Cubs have all the talk around town, do you think KW will try to steal some of that energy and aqcuire a big name?? Things have been too quite lately.... KW worries about making the Sox better, not what happens on the other side of town. Any deal with Baltimore had better begin with Bedard otherwise they have nothing we need.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 11:53 AM) A few thoughts here... -The Cubs are gigantic idiots if they plan on hitting Soriano in the leadoff spot. Why would you hit your best power hitter, directly after the worst two hitters in your line up? -So is the 3 years for $39 million for Furcal is absurd anymore. If the Cubs make that deal, they save $100 million, 5 years, and a full no trade clause. -A full no trade clause might actually be the dumbest part of this whole contract. The guy is a selfish player, who shows all of the classic signs of regressing once the dollar/"respect" motivation is gone. -If you were going to spend that kind of cash, go out and fix the biggest problems the Cubs have and get two starting pitchers. I would be impressed if both Schmidt and Zitos deals added together total what Soriano just received. This is the important concept they are missing. They still need two starting pitchers to have any shot at going deep in the playoffs. As Yoda said "If you chose the quick and easy path you will become an agent of evil." They chose the the path of spectacular move but not the move which will help them win. Unless they add the pitching.

I agree with the Sausage King. Players who strike out alot and don't walk kill any type of consistent offense regradless of how many HRs they hit. He is going to drive cub fans nuts just as patterson did. However, they will forgive him as he hits the 30th solo home run of the season.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 20, 2006 -> 10:36 AM) You sure because someone had a sig with a link to the article stating it was Schueler's and that Schueler knew he didn't have to send both Fogg and Wells, but did so anyway. It was KW with a quote from Schueler who was a consultant at the time, that he liked the trade but didn't know if Fogg needed to be included with Wells and Lowe.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 19, 2006 -> 11:28 AM) At the beginning of last season, Widger commented that Garland was having some shoulder problems. He seemed to overcome them obviously. I do think the White Sox luck with pitcher's health has to come to an end sometime. I know Herm Schneider is considered among the best if not the best, but there is only so much a trainer can do to help prevent injury. Wrong we are Gods we can do anything!!! Seriously, TheSox are lucky to have young players with proven track records of health, that is the biggest factor. A good trainer and pitching coach to keep too many stressful mechanics out of the system helps is next. Third is too work the pitchers regularly with number of oitches not too many which most people focus on but also not too few. This is something the Sox do in the minors which others don't. Have the pitcher's work even if it may cost a game. Afterall, the game results in the minros is secondary to health and progressive in skills.

QUOTE(TLAK @ Nov 19, 2006 -> 07:58 AM) I used the numbers I posted in the Daily Stats Thread. Daily Stats Thread I call a start bad at a 6 ERA, giving Javy 12, Buerlhe also had 12. Freddy only had 8. When the starter throws 6 ERA ball it is very difficult for his team will win. As a team White Sox were 12-40 in these bad starts, 26-17 when the starter was Meh (3-6), and 50-10 with Quality outings (3 or less). The more baseball I watch the more I am convinced that most games are lost by one team rather than won by the other. Basic competent baseball, which includes catching the ball, smart pitch selection and getting runners on, over and in will beat a bunch of jazzy all-stars almost every time. A sound defense and a couple of runs are of great help to the pitcher. The pitcher has to avoid dumb mistakes and keep his concentration. I think pitchers make 'errors', for example throwing a 0-2 slider to Craig f-ing Monroe, just like a fielder kicking a ball. How else to explain Javy's lousy record despite his great stuff? He finds a way to lose. Great post. Quality pitching and good defense wins. Here is a question that I can't find the answer to: How many times has a team with the leading HR player or a team with the most HR won the world series? Idon't believe it would be very high.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 18, 2006 -> 05:59 PM) If Anderson is included, Texas absolutely has to include Hurley. Garland + Anderson for Danks/Hurley/Basset is about what I"d expect. We shouldn't be looking to trade for equal value here. This is our opportunity to take advantage of surplus pitching. It's difficult to expect a legitimate upgrade in LF/CF, however, unless prospects obtained from Garland (added with our package) were sent to TB for Crawford. Do you believe we'll pay 13-14 million a year for J.D. Drew? I'd think a trades for Figgens alone may occur, in which some combination of prospects would be sent over. Problem is, who exactly would they want? Sweeney would probably be platooned in CF, and we're not exactly stacked with anything else. I'd say, see if Anaheim might want Fields and Broadway. This is probably one of the most feasible of the suggestions on the board. If you truly want three players particularly pitchers from another team we will not to give up more than one of our starters. I like this deal alot.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 18, 2006 -> 02:35 PM) You know, I don't entirely believe this is true. When various high profile FA pitchers sign, we're (likely) eliminating those teams from dealing with us. Potential trading partners will eventually become fewer and fewer. I'd be more willing to offer our starters when the entire field is a possibility. Even though there remains a lot of time between now and Spring Training, Williams waits long enough and suddenly he'll become the desperate party. Everyone already knows we're willing to sell. It's a bit different dealing with 10 teams now than 5 two months from now; none of which may possess the prospects/players we may covet. I'm not suggesting Williams immediately jumps upon the first offer; but honestly, we should have already traded a starter by Christmas. After that, I'll be more worried about return value than I currently am. I agree with this and stated it another thread. KW targets players (Thome, Vazquez,Garcia) and goes out to get them. I don't kow which players those are at the moment but KW will make the trade for the players he has targeted as soon as he can. So he can spend the rest of the off season filling in the gaps that still exist afterwards.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 18, 2006 -> 03:06 PM) Im almost positive Garcia pitched around 14 innings in the WBC. That reason is garbage. That reason is not garbage. It's not about how many innings he pitched it's about the lack of rest he got in the offseason. If you think he rested from Nov. until the WBC you are sadly mistaken. He had to begin his throwing sooner and up the intensity sooner. He was worn out and I guarantee you will see him throwing harder this year. I don't know how many off season programs you've seen but I guarantee that the decreased off season effected him.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 18, 2006 -> 01:25 PM) The Freddy Garcia your talking about had a 94 MPH fastball and a 3.87 ERA in 2005. The Freddy Garcia now has 86 MPH junk, and ended the season with a 4.54 ERA. Your logic is because Vazquez was not part of the World Series team, he is garbage... That was last year with an extremely short off season due to the WBC. I would not be surprised if his fastball begin to return to the low 90's but with an addition of a split fingered pitch. This could mkae him extremely valuable. Plus, next year will be a FA year in his prime so there is alot of extra incentive there. He will have an outstanding year in 2007 for a variety of reasons.

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 18, 2006 -> 05:42 AM) Parody Time, kids What parody? It dead on balls accurrate to me.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 11:43 AM) After being asked how much interest there was in his starters he is shopping, he had this comeback. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines Who wouldn't rather post them? 51.1 million will buy alot of players and payroll flexibility.

QUOTE(beautox @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 11:37 AM) Figgins is "teh sux" hes in the same boat and Podsednik and Pierre, this FA class and offseason has shown us that the price for the unknown(Matz) is HIGH and that the price for the known(Zito,Schmidt,Garcia,ect.) is going to be even higher, wait until the dust settles for Zito and Schmidt, KW will get what he wants for one(Pelfry & Humber) possibly two of our starters. You want to give Garcia away for a speedy utility player that had an OBP of .336 and throw in a propsect, hoping that gets the deal done. Unless the team he wants the players from are the ones which sign those FAs. Then he loses out on that player. If KW trades for the player he wants first then that team won't need to sign the FA. Why might a team do that???? To save the money. There are pros and cons to trading early. I think KW usually trades early because he has certain players targeted and wants to make sure he gets them. Like his arguements about Boras, he has a value of his players and value of the other players and will make the trade to get what he wants.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 09:55 AM) I read on many occasions how much KW loves Bedard. Or remember last offseason how Baltamore wanted Jose Contreras and Uribe for Tejada?!? I wonder if those talks have regained any momentum..... I expect a big impact very soon as Turkey Day is quickly approaching... Didn't KW aqcuire Thome friday, the day after Turkey day last year? KW knows pitching is the road to winning. If he's talking with Baltimore, Bedard is invovled.

QUOTE(BobDylan @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 09:40 AM) Probably. I'm just saying it brings some sort of absurd and ridiculous comic value to my heart. I enjoy it a great deal, but at the same time, it's totally out of this world. I think what all the wild rumors show is that KW is talking to everyone about any of his pitchers and will then pick out the deal he thinks is best. I wouldn't doubt if all of these conversation have taken place but on an exploratory basis. And I agree that we will see a variation of one of these soon.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 07:58 PM) Jesus, talk about a lateral move. They're practically clones of one another - Latin ballplayers who are good defensively and show little plate discipline. Uribe has a higher slugging percentage and more RBI's yet lower average/OBP. If we're intent on upgrading, atleast make it a legitimate upgrade. This is an everyday player we're talking about, now a bullpen arm such as Neal Cotts. The only way it makes sense is if KW has a deal working and that team wants Uribe as part of it. Say one of our starters and Uribe. KW would not want to get stuck without a good fielding shortstop.

QUOTE(R.Sweeney @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 07:22 PM) I see what your saying ,I guess I should have worded it differently .If these guys are highly regarded prospects why would you trade them ?I understand that Texass wants to win for 07 but Garland cant pitch for them every day either . Maybe because like some people on this board they want the proven player and don't want to risk it with prospect.

How much money is Bonds paying this guy to keep his trap shut? This is the third time he is going to jail and it could be for a year. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2664964

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 05:46 PM) I think we should trade him to the Cubs, they might want to slot him into a starting pitchers slot. Maybe we can get David Aardsma and Carlos Vasquez for him? is that all??? that would be a terrible deal for a hard throwing lefty with just one bad year last year. We can get much more than that!!!

QUOTE(CardsJimEdmonds15 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 05:41 PM) Cardinals re-sign IF-OF Spiezio to two-year deal November 16, 2006 ST. LOUIS (Ticker) - The St. Louis Cardinals were not about to let their most versatile player get away. Scott Spiezio, a switch hitter who played five different positions last season, signed a two-year contract with the defending World Series champions on Thursday. Financial terms of the deal, which includes a club option for 2009, were not disclosed. In the postseason, Spiezio added six RBI, including a game-tying two-run triple in Game Two of the National League Championship Series against the New York Mets. "You hear the term winning player and that's what Scott is," Cardinals general manager Walt Jocketty said. "Scott showed once again why he has been tabbed with such a label. Scott's leadership, versatility and production in the clutch are such strong qualities." [More in URL] Good stuff Good article but *cough* HGH *cough*

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 04:49 PM) Can MLBTraderumors.com please be banned? That website is just ridiculous. Yea, a deal is going to be struck in the first few days... Thought this was interesting: "1) He's one of the top five or 10 pitchers in the world. 2) He's only 26 and has many years ahead of him. 3) We have no idea how much of that $51.11 million is real money; it's very possible that Seibu will kick some of that in towards Matsuzaka's contract to make sure a deal gets done. 4) It's an extremely unique situation, where a guy this good, this young and with this track record goes on the open market with exclusive signing rights (as opposed to just becoming a free agent). So under those circumstances, yes, he's a $100 million pitcher. Imagine if Johan Santana were posted -- the money would be very similar. People are up in arms about the dollars, but the Red Sox have more money to spend than anybody but the Yankees. To compare it to a normal free agent, that's just silly, because it's apples and oranges." *** The Red Sox are in more of a position of power than I thought. I love quotes like this. I know it's semantics but the definition of unique is one of a kind. Sothis means it's extremely one of a kind as opposed to a regular one of a kind. Sorry, I'm in the middle of grading papers and even at the graduate level I find these phrases.