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Let's put it another way. Would you rather have a guy with an ERA of 2.6 with 12 wins ala Kerry Wood or a guy with 16 wins and an ERA of 3.89 ala MB? I for one go with the only stat that truly matters: the WIN.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 28, 2005 -> 08:39 PM) I do. If a pitcher gives up 10 runs but the offense scores 11 so the pitcher gets the win, does that mean he pitched well? Of course not. That means that the offense performed well but the pitcher struggled mightily. Is it ever a good thing when a pitcher's ERA is high instead of low? He still WON. At the end of the season does it matter what the ERA is? Does it matter how many guys he struck out? NO all that matters is that the teams with the most WINS go to the playoffs and have a chance to win the World Series.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 28, 2005 -> 08:37 PM) If he gave up only 1 run that would be a great outing. Giving up 5 runs in 6 innings is not. I don't agree that it would be a great outing. He did not WIN. It's kind of semantics but since he didn't win, he didn't do his job.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 28, 2005 -> 08:29 PM) So what happens when Garland gives up 5 or 6 runs but our offense doesn't score that many? You can't expect your offense to score 6 runs a game. What happens when he gives up 1 run and the offense scores 0? Do you say he did his job? Garland will. His job is to be better than the other teams pitcher. That is why the win is assigned to the pitchers.

I happen to agree with TRU on this one. I think with the boom of SABR that the one stat that is overlooked is wins. Take Kerry Wood for example. His stats always look good. Strikes out alot of guys, keeps the WHIP down, low ERA. But can he win? No!! He throws so many pitches early in the game that with pitch counts as important that SABR make them , he must leave games early and the bullpen blows them. If he focused on economizing pitches and staying in games longer he wouldn't blow so many leads. People always say that pitchers today down finish games like they used to,. This is because the pitchers of old threw strikes and finished 9 innings with 110-110 pitches. Ferguson Jenkins was once quoted as saying "I pitch well enopugh to win if that means giving up one run in a close game or taking it easy if we have a big lead and giving up 5 runs." Give me a guy who has the most important stat: WINS anyday.

QUOTE(Kid Gleason @ Mar 28, 2005 -> 07:36 PM) I'm going up to the Friday game, but as I live only a little over an hour from there, I am coming home afterwards. If you DO stay there in Milwaukee, make sure you find your way to The Safe House for some food and drinks. PM me for the password to get in, but DO NOT tell somebody in your party, just so you can watch the staff make an idiot out of them on the closed circuit TV that runs through the bar! I love Milwaukee, and usually spend a weekend or two up there. Great friggin' city. the Safe house!!! Another great place. I once saw Chrles Barkley get tossed out and into a fight with police because he didn't know the password. Tell the women to look under the fig leaf!!!!

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 28, 2005 -> 04:45 PM) Uribe's hit chart: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...6874&statType=1 Overall I think the article was very fair, highly detailed, & solid in it's commentary but I think it was weak in building a case for the Lee trade. The biggest weakness being that it didn't consider how often Lee himself was a RISP vs Pods in 04. Instead it looked at the team in general & concluded getting RISP was more important than guys that could hit w RISP. C Lee 04 Bases Empty: vs LH 368A, 439O, 632S; v RH 303A, 354O, 502S: 108H, 25D, 16HR, 6 SB, CS 3 S Pods 04 Bases Empty: vs LH 186A, 248O, 258S; vs RH 273A, 341O, 399S : 113H, 20D, 5T, 7HR, 56 SB, CS 10 The SB is a measure of how many times they reached base on a bases empty AB & then stole a base. C Lee 47, S Pods 88. Keep in mind Pods had about 100+ AB more than Lee last year, but when you take into consider OBP+SB, he's still more likely to be a RISP than Lee. However; he has the potential of getting shutdown vs LH. An area where Lee thrived the best. That can really hurt in the ALC which features some of the prominent LHers in MLB. Kenny's going to live or die on this trade for sure. Don't forget to factor in what Vizcaino and Hernandez do. The trade included the reliever and the money saved allowed us to get another starter. Don't judge this trade on offensivee stats alone(it's obvious that CLee is a better hitter), factor in the upgrade in LF defense and the two pitcher's stats.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Mar 28, 2005 -> 02:48 PM) Herm in the booth they are letting the trainer talk!!! Finally some well deserved recognition. (I'm just a little biased)

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Mar 28, 2005 -> 02:25 PM) Please don't. We've had enough problems with fans on the field. Sorry, you are correct. I'll do it the parking lot.

If I hear Garland say " I did my job" after a loss, like he did so many times last year, I'm going walk over there and sit him down myself.

QUOTE(JimH @ Mar 28, 2005 -> 01:31 PM) Ah yes, Major Goolsby's. Great place ... on 4th, a few blocks south of the Bradley Center, actually almost directly across from the old arena (Mecca). Good burgers in there and all sorts of sports memorabilia. Waitresses are generally very cute as well. My wife and I ran into a few Milwaukee Admirals players, way back when the Admirals were a Blackhawk farm team (mid 80's). One of the guys was Darren Pang, back when he had hair. I remember him talking eye to eye with my 5'3" spouse. About 11:30, in walks Bob Pulford. He walks over to all of the players and says "drink up boys" and holds his thumb over his shoulder to tell them "out". I introduce myself to Pulford and tell him I'm a season ticket holder and can I get him a beer. He says, "Thanks ... no. I'm babysitting tonite." Probably ran into you there a few times. I went to Marquette in the mid 80's. Spent many nights there after basketball and hockey games at the Mecca.

QUOTE(JimH @ Mar 28, 2005 -> 01:05 PM) Also, the Miller Brewery is just north of the expressway from the ballpark, you can easily see it from the parking lots. I'd say it's less than a 10 minute ride away. Free tours ... three free beers in the hospitality room after the tour, they give you free postcards and pay the postage to mail them. Last tour for the day is either 3:00 or 3:30, can't remember which. It takes about an hour. Don't forget Major Goolsby's next to the Bradley center. A great sports bar to catch everything. Good food and tap beers. Jim as I recall you indulge in the Wheat beers, you can't go wrong there.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Mar 28, 2005 -> 12:22 PM) There's no where to move the fences too without taking out seats. So if we wanna dump a few hundred in capactiy, maybe. In left field there is abouta 5 ft. gap between the seats and the wall. They could move it a little.

The fundamentals still concern me. The things you should be able to control and put yourself in a position to win everyday such as base running and defense. The pitching will undoubtedly be better. no matter how much Contreas might suck, he won't have the 9+ ERA our fifth starter had last year. If he is our worst pitcher it's still an improvement over last year. Now, will that be enough of an improvement to catch the Twins? So far, it doesn't look good. But, maybe they'll sort it out when the bell rings and the games count.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Mar 26, 2005 -> 01:06 PM) There's no one cause for the Cubs/Sox situation, so there's no one solution. Some causes for the Sox being less popular include, but are not limited to: the new ballpark the 94 World Series being squashed, and JR being a prime figurehead in it Sox being the first to go to pay TV the neighborhood the White Flag trade WGN helping to create a national audience for the Cubs for decades Increasing payroll is not going to solve this by itself. I'm not even sure it would make a dent. Look at Magglio, for example - the entire time he was here, he was an All-Star calibre player and was ignored. As soon as the Sox decide not to pay him, they're labeled as letting a perennial All-Star leave, despite the knee injury and the reluctance of his agent to disclose everyhting or have Magglio inspected. There are preconceptions about the White Sox that are now kind of deeply ingrained. If the Cubs had acquired Colon, Wells, Everett, Alomar, Belle, etc. it would have been seen as HUGE moves by a team serious about making the playoffs. It's just the way things are, and the ONLY way for this to change is for the Sox to win A LOT and win consistently. Acquiring marquee players could help in this, but it's not the "be all, end all" and it SURE doesn't guarantee success - ask Texas, the Mets or the Orioles about that. Very well described. All of those are factors.

QUOTE(JimH @ Mar 25, 2005 -> 04:17 PM) Aaron Rowand hits into a DP. Sox are getting their ass handed to them. Perez grounds out, into the 8th inning. 9-0 Brewers. Good thing the Brewers had their starting line up in as well as their best starter!

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 25, 2005 -> 02:40 PM) If we trade or don't re-sign Konerko, he's the guy I would want Kenny to go after. The Brewers won't need him once Prince Fielder is ready. I agree. I saw him in spring training a few years ago in AZ and was impressed then. I am even more impressed since he has been in Mil.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Mar 25, 2005 -> 02:17 PM) WHAT DO YA MEAN TOO HIGH! You know the trajectory, I thought it went to high to go out (close)

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 25, 2005 -> 02:15 PM) Iguchi hits a TOWERING ball off the CF wall for a double! Too High

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Mar 25, 2005 -> 01:04 PM) I'm sorry that you had to listen to Mike North. Agreed

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 25, 2005 -> 12:43 PM) On the subject of Babe Ruth & Barry Bonds, let's not forget that it is public record today that Ruth was essentially a lush. He played most of the times being buzzed & over-fed. To imagine what he would put up today with the focus to health & conditioning boggles the mind. Regardless of what any other player does Ruth in my opinion will remain the greatest player to ever play the game. Let's not forget dirty tricks with the norm when Ruth played. Pitchers did things that would clearly be illegal in the game today. The thing that really puts Ruth over the top in my book is that he hit more HR's than most other TEAMS. No one will ever do that in today. That is what makes him the greatest and why Bonds will never be as great as him: steriods or no steriods.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 24, 2005 -> 06:28 PM) You obviously have not looked at his hit chart: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/ml...1188&statType=1 It's tailor-made for Barry & probably few others. Now I'll say this again, look at the chart & look at the distance on his HR's. That's roids. There's no doubt about that. But there's also reason to believe w/out roids he'll still hit the HR's. Just no where near as far. Probably most of his HR's would have stayed in the BP. If you're saying Sosa is .350 OBP w/out roids & .400 OBP w roids that's not a major difference. In Sosa's case you could argue more of his HR's are fly outs because of his lower average & lower OBP preceding his HR years. There just is no one else like Barry in the game today. Now if you want to make the argument he'd be unable to play as much as he did I'll buy that. Barry has basically confessed that much. Without roids he's sitting a lot more than he did. That would have had the biggest impact on his numbers. What happens to the OBP when you are intentionally walked? This is not Bonds having a good eye or the pitcher missing the plate. He had 120 at bats where the other manager didn't even try. These IBB numbers have only increased in the last few years as a result of the increased HR's up to 73. If he was only hiotting 40-50 he would not get the IBB and the ungodly OBP that he has.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Mar 24, 2005 -> 03:57 PM) For me, when it comes to good burritos, money is no objective. Nobody has burritos like El Farol in Justice

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 24, 2005 -> 01:20 PM) The problem I have with making that leap is that the majority of Bonds HR's are in Covey Bay. That park is tailor made for that player. Roids stretched the distance on those HR's. Without roids he probably still hits them for HR's. So I agree the HR numbers would be down & the SLG numbers would be down but I don't think his other numbers would vary much. I give the park he plays in much more credit than the roids for his success. I respectfully disagree. Without the 73 HR's he would not get 120 IBBs. He may get most of the non-intentionals but not the IBB. He does have a great eye but you look at the HR's and that's why he was walked so often. This increased his OBP and OPS artificially. He would still be a great player but not out of this world.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 24, 2005 -> 11:48 AM) That's just mean. Yes, I've read the testimony by his ex girl-friend. Yes I believe it's pretty strong evidence against him that he used roids. But roids didn't help him to set the bar on walks to a level that may never been broken. No one on roids has ever come close to producing Barry's OBP or BA as consistently as he has. You can question the HR's but the rest of his numbers are probably in sync with what he would have done roids-free. As for trading Borchy if someone's out there & willing to overpay for him do it. J Borchard ST-05 .212A 14G 33AB 8R 7H 21TB 2D 0 4HR 11RBI Otherwise send him to AAA let him get his numbers up & trade him then. He has no future with the CWS. Hitting 212 in AZ is ridiculous. I'm done dreaming of his potential. He can't hit. He can only bash once in a while. The dilemma is that would he have those walks especially those 120 IBB if he didn't hit the home runs? Not all of the home runs were steriod enhanced but I bet the rate he hit them at is.