whitesoxfan101

So we're willing to eat 4.5 million for Uribe, but not 5 million for Crede, instead opting to retard the development of our best prospect to show off a mediocre hitter with a bad back? Yeah, this makes sense.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 11:49 AM) A smart one who cares about his team winning. He had zero plans to visit any other schools and his announcement now got less attention that anything on signing day. In that case, I expect to see many other highly recruited two sport athletes to do things like this in the future. I think Pryor may be the next Vince Young, but this logic regarding his announcement of where he's going to school is crazy. However, the only thing crazier than that is the idea that people at Penn State and Michigan have actually thought they still had a chance the last month and a half, so maybe Pryor is sly like a fox.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 11:42 AM) Yeah, but he made sure the fans at PSU didnt root against his team when he was in the playoffs because he left them an option, get it? Smart move. There werent too many OSU fans that thought he was going there, but we sure did think DickRod may sneak in and take him like he did with a few other teams almost commits. Who the hell delays a college choice so fans of another college won't root against them in a high school tournament? So no I don't get it at all, and DickRod seemed to creep out Pryor a long time ago, so he was never a threat to steal him.

QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 11:41 AM) Yeah I remember when Fields hit 30HR and 90RBI's in '06...Ohhh wait that was Crede... Fields was in AAA developing in 2006 first of all, and you just made a very bad point for your argument. Crede had 30 HR's and 96 RBI's in his best full year of his life, a full year he will never repeat and might not approach. Last year, Josh Fields had 23 HR and 67 RBI's in 100 games, and he only started about 85 of them I'd guess. With experience, Fields average year will easily surpass (especially in other more important stats like on base and especially slugging) Crede's best year.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 11:39 AM) He was actually smart since alot of his playoff bball games were played in State College PA where PSU was the home state fav to land him. He walked away with the bball state title and committed to his best option. And he'll only play football. Well that would be smart if he had actually been considering anybody other than Ohio State. I remember reading that he visited Penn State because his Dad wanted him to and his Dad is sick or something? Anyways, I guess it was nice of him to listen to Dad's point of view, but he was going to Ohio State since about February 1st.

What a waste of everybody's time, it's been clear since a week before signing day that he was going to Ohio State. Not that Buckeye fans care of course, better late than never getting a guy that talented. Is he going to play basketball and football is my first question. He better be REALLY good with all the drama he's had in this process.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 11:29 AM) Did you see Spiderman 3, and the scene where the sandman is born by falling in to a radioactive experiment? Well, Adam Dunn was walking along one day, fell into a gigantic hole, and had his body somehow merged with a bunch of sand. He became our nations newest member of the super powers club...Adam "Dunne", as in a Sand Dune. The only question is whether or not he'll use his powers for good or ill. Basically it depends on whether or not he winds up with the Yankees. I saw Spiderman 3, but I saw it in theaters. I'm assuming this scene you refer to was one of the deleted scenes that shows up on the DVD edition, so no I haven't seen that part.

I'll be boring and vote for the 3 categories that I'm assuming will run away in this: 81-85, 3rd, no.

QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 11:22 AM) Wow. Hate to burst your bubble but Fields is the next coming of a poor man's Adam Dunne. Who is Adam Dunne? He's not showing up on baseball reference.

QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 11:18 AM) Thank god baseball is played on the field and not on paper. When that statement is your best argument about a teams chances, you know your team is completely f***ed.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 11:12 AM) Granted, it's not totally rosey, but it's certainly not the "let's blow everything up", yet. We can at least wait until May 1 for that, can't we? We're better, but are we 20-25 games better than last year? Because if we aren't THAT much better, we aren't making the playoffs. And if we aren't making the playoffs, our old core is another year older and another year closer to free agency, and even our young guys like Jenks are a year closer to costing us a truckload of money. I don't see any way in hell we finish better than 3rd in this division, so our short term is not good, and our farm system is the worst in baseball with our major league core already being old, so our long term is not good. Until somebody can legitimately refute even one of those points, i'm going to be pretty down on the Sox. I still love them and will watch every game, but I am down on them.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 10:55 AM) But they did use the kids in their farm system to trade for those players. Javier Vazquez, A-Rod and Abreu are a few of the guys that were acquired using the talent in the system. But even to that point, they had the farm system deep and good enough to attain players of that level. We don't. All we can do is trade our only two truly elite prospects (as well as a 3rd guy who used to be looked at that way) to get one guy. Now that one guy is good in Nick Swisher, but even to your point, the Yankees had the system to trade for guys much better than we can.

QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 10:41 AM) And how many times have the yankees missed the playoffs in the last 15 years? Maybe once. Actually it's the last 13 seasons, their streak of excellence really started with their heartbreaking loss to Seattle in the 1995 ALDS and then the title the next year. But the point is, most of those 13 teams (more likely all) were built with cores that were originally members of the *gasp* Yankee farm system!! They won those four championships with cores of excellent homegrown players. Now, they did sprinkle in important free agents here and there like Paul O'Neill and Scott Brosius, but the vast majority of the important players on those teams were home grown talent. And as the core of the team began to and continued to age, the Yankees didn't try and replenish the roster with home grown players, they bought free agents. Needless to say, they continued to make the playoffs, but didn't win championships because that is not how it works. Only now are the Yankees re-figuring out that winning is about building from within, and it's scary to see because they have quite a few young players that are either already good or will be very soon. As a result, guys like Jeter and Rivera might have one last run of glory before retiring into the sunset.

Well I take back what I said earlier in this thread, there is apparently at least one hardcore conservative with a clue of what he speaks on this topic, and who isn't afraid to tackle this subject.

QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 10:33 AM) They have these players called "free agents" every year. We're not the Royals, we have money. Ask the Yankees how rebuilding via free agency works. Their attemps to do that (and they have three times as much money as us), have caused what is for their standards a long drought of world championships. What have they done to fix it? They've built a system of excellent up and coming prospects and players like Cano, Melky Cabrera, Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain, etc and are trying to win that way. People forget even the Yankees dynasty of the late 1990's was originally built on what was an excellent farm system with Pettitte, Jeter, Posada, Bernie Williams, Mariano Rivera, etc.

QUOTE(Princess Dye @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 10:29 AM) If you think attempting winning in 2008 is pointless, then you probably believe we'll be bad fast, and Fields will be UP HERE ANYWAY by midseason. Furthermore, does Fields playing in AAA another year really "stunt" his progress? My belief is talent comes to the forefront or it doesnt. He's 25. Anybody that saw the fall of Brandon McCarthy after he was moved to the bullpen when he thought he had a starting job locked up knows that this sort of thing can affect a player, even if they will eventually likely earn their spot long term. I know that sounds wrong, but professional athletes are shallow, egotistical, and fragile if you take away something they think they have. But that's beyond the point of, what's the point of sending Fields down yet again when he should be getting major league at bats anyways? Keeping Crede instead of playing Fields at 3B isn't going to get us any closer to a championship, and it would be more beneficial for Fields to spend even those couple extra months with the White Sox than the Knights.

QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 10:22 AM) Are you more concerned with having a good MLB team or AAA team? Don't over value prospects because thats all they are...prospects. I think there's list a mile long of "can't miss" prospects who never made it. If Kenny wanted a good farm system he could have it tomorrow, but he wants the White Sox to compete now our farm system. I am more concerned with having a good MLB team in the long run, but we don't have that right now. Actually, I shouldn't say that because we might be pretty good, but we aren't good enough to contend with the Tigers and Indians right now, and that is what matters. But anyways, the only way we are going to get our MLB team to be good again is to rebuild, and that would in the short run entail having good minor league teams which build up the young talent before it is ready for the majors. We can't get good again IMO unless we rebuild, and you can't rebuild unless you at some point have a good AAA team and farm system. Now, the issue this thread started with doesn't have a ton to do with the system itself. But it's just a bad message being sent yet again by Kenny that our young players and future don't matter and we are still going for it every year, even though our roster isn't good enough to win a title or even make the playoffs.

I don't think the Swisher deal was "idiotic" but the fact we had to give up our top three prospects to get Swisher and then one of our best hitting prospects to get Quentin tells you both how bereft our system was of outfielders, and how thin our farm system is. That, and the fact we have no value for prospects and no concept of rebuilding, but we knew that already.

QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 10:00 AM) I'm pretty sure a ground ball in AAA is the same as a ground ball in MLB. Not even close. There is just a wee bit more pressure in the majors than triple a, plus your catching groud balls from players you'll be going against for the next several years in the majors, not so much at triple a. That also doesn't keep in mind the fact that a baseball bounces a lot different on a major league kept field (true) than it does on the average AAA field, which isn't in such good shape. But you seem to think Crede is great and Fields sucks and was a fluke last year, so I am not going to convince you obviously.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 12:13 PM) 1. My Eyes. 2. Statistical info (Cube, ESPN, whatever) 3. Other peoples eyes When it comes to the Sox, or most baseball in general, 98% of media coverage is a waste for me. Not to come off smug, but I know more about this organization than any sports talk host talking about it on air, and 95% of the callers that call in. The writers that cover the beat provide good info that wouldn't be available to us otherwise, but when Joe Cowley compares Jerry Owens and Kenny Lofton in his prime, I'm going to put down the paper... However, when it comes to sports I don't follow as closely, the NBA for example, I listen to people I trust. There are people here that follow the NBA pretty close, and over time I think B&B on the Score,(Bernstein mostly) have a pretty good grasp on the Association, so I gather info from there as well. I follow similar ideas. The one difference is that the sport I don't follow is the NHL, so I actually come here and go to the NHL thread to find the people I trust know what they are talking about such as DBAHO and Krush and so on. As for the other sports, you are right and I feel the same way because it's true. I know more about sports (and especially my teams) than the hosts of the sports radio shows do, as do most people who post on a sports message board. Stats are a good idea to figure stuff out too with basketball and baseball.

QUOTE(Princess Dye @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 09:53 AM) Even if it's adequate, it doesnt match Crede's. Crede's D wins you games in key moments, makes your team better. Fields is the 3b who welp-just-didnt-get-to-that-GW-single. If Fields offense is at its best possible next year, and Crede's is at least slightly above decent.... I dont know that Fields makes you better that way either. Again, it's how much you prize next year. We have already committed to a 2008 run at this thing, so I dont think you complicate that solely to make sure that Fields has come along. You bring up an excellent point on committing to a 2008 run, but that's the problem. This team is not going to do anything but finish in 3rd place this year, and our management is in denial of that and won't rebuild. It looked like we would at least get to see our future at 3B, but now that is in doubt too. As for Fields defense, it can't improve unless he gets some "reps" at the major league level, and he's ready to produce offensively at a level far surperior to a normal Crede year, even if strikeouts offend a lot of people.

I would normally say this is just a team posturing, but with our ridiculous GM I can't even give him that benefit of the doubt. This team SHOULD be rebuilding and have a lot of young players as it is, and we actually have a solid, young player at 3B. So what do we do? We can't even get that right, and we're going to start the 3B with a bad back who can't get on base and won't be back in 2009 anyways. The ineptitude of our management is pretty incredible right now.

Watching the handeling of Josh Fields is beginning to be another of many examples why this team never has and never will have anything resembling an even respectable minor league system under Kenny Williams. He handles prospects worse than any GM in baseball.

Why didn't we non tender his ass? Instead, we are stuck with a 3rd basemen with a bad back who can't hit and costs us 5 million bucks, hoping somebody will give us a mediocre starting pitcher for him. I can't believe how bad we have f***ed this up, even the Sox aren't this stupid normally. I'm sure it will be good for Josh to be in Charlotte for 3 weeks until Crede is either traded for mush or re-injures his back.

QUOTE(kjshoe04 @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 09:22 PM) Go SIU and Creighton tonight, show them the Valley did not deserve just one bid. The Valley could have 3 of the final 4 in the NIT and it still wouldn't prove anything, it's still games between NIT and NIT teams.