whitesoxfan101

C.C. Sabathia and Aaron Harang with an epic duel, but the Reds pull it out 1-0 in 12 to take 2 of 3 from the Toons in Cincy. Great series too, all 3 games could have gone either way.

All my trends continued today, other than Logan and Fields. Still, good to see this team has SOME positives.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 01:14 PM) Can someone look up and post how many game winning hits or RBI's to take the lead Thome has? Maybe that would convince me that I'm wrong if he's near the top in those categories. In 2005, Carl Everett led the league most of the year in driving in runs to take the lead. That's why he was nicknamed "The Chauffer" by DJ. That's what I mean by "clutch", not OBP or OPS. I love ignorant meathead fans. I bet you wish the Bears woulda started Kyle Orton too.

Congrats to Mark, and nice game Konerko, Terrero, and even Gonzalez. Even Uribe goes yard. But again, everytime we win, the bullpen makes sure to remind us we still suck ass even in victory .

Torii Hunter is the only one that seems to get it: If you miss out on a kid in this country, you lose 2 million, but if you miss out on a kid in the Carribean or South America, you lose 2 thousand because to him 2 thousand is a forture due to how poor it is down there. What I THINK Hunter meant was the amount of American players is going WAY down in 10 years, and combine that with the decline of blacks in the game, and well yeah you see the point, it's economic and not racial.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 12:10 PM) PNC or Camden. Both parks are great, it's tough to choose. Walking around outside of Camden (near the warehouse) is great, and PNC is just fantastic. If I had to, I'd probably give the edge to PNC, just because of the view it offers of downtown Pittsburgh and the rivers. Yeah I can't wait for my trip, I've heard such great things about all 3 places. Supposedly Citizens Bank has better food than The Cell but i'm not counting on it.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 11:56 AM) Who's going for the Phillies? Adam Eaton, with his pre 2007 Cliff Lee esque line of 6-4 with a 5.99 ERA.

Kobe is the most similar to MJ in that he's a great scorer and great defender, but in every other facet of the game MJ has him beat by a mile. LeBron is a lot more like Magic Johnson than anybody else IMO.

That was the worst screw job I've ever seen the organization give us the fans, by far. You are right though, your tailspin really got going the next day when we blew the lead against Kazmir and the bullpen had one of it's early collapses. Interesting.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 10:53 AM) Another positive is that Day has looked really good in his last few outings. In his first outing or so, his slider just swept with no real break. But now, he has that late breaking movement on it with that tilt. It is a nasty pitch to go along with his best pitch (IMO), his fastball. Yeah, I'd have MUCH rather seen him come in for the 8th than Prinz. He's not being overused, I mean he did throw on Friday but that was only 16 pitches to get 4 outs and he hadn't pitched the 2 days before that. Hell, to be honest, Day is our best righty option other than Jenks right now, and should be treated as such.

Miller Park, but i'm going to PNC, Citizens Bank, and Camden Yards later this summer so ask me after that.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 02:28 PM) What happened to all that talk from the end of last year about trading Vazquez and keeping Garcia because "he was our best starter down the stretch"? I think most smart posters around here wanted him traded even more after last September since he was at peak value. Now, we didn't GET peak value for him but we traded him at the right time, which is a start. Just to get the numbers in this thread: Freddy turns 31 today, is in a contract year, is broken down from overuse, on the DL, and has a 1-5 record with a 5.90 ERA, 1.60 WHIP, and a .318 batting average against. In the National League(!!!)

Freddy Garcia has a 5.90 ERA, 1.60 WHIP, .318 batting average against, 1-5 record, a broken down arm due to overuse (happy 31st b-day today Freddy!) and will get overpaid by a mile and a half by somebody like the Yanks this offseason. Oh, and he's in the freaking NL doing this, and now on the DL as well. Hell, we look like we got a coup just to get Gio for him now almost. No thanks.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 09:34 AM) I'm not trying to badger you but I wonder what on Earth you're talking about with his "brains." The reason people talk about Maddux brains is twofold: he'd do things like give Craig Biggio a pitch that he was looking for in a certain count so he could homer just so that he can give him a different pitch in the playoffs in the same count + situation, just in case they happen to face each other. (I believe it was Biggio, or Bagwell.) Or he'd be "in your head with you" and throw you a changeup when you want a fastball or a curveball when you expect a changeup, etc. etc. You can't "outsmart" a hitter with one good pitch. That's precisely why I think he's a POOR MAN'S Maddux. He basically has 3 pitches and only 2 good ones (the change and moving fastball), yet hitters never seem too comfortable against him. To be a long time starter doing that and still be good has to be a testament to how smart a pitcher you are I would think. Now he's not Maddux smart and has not nearly his stuff, hence he's a 3 starter for life, but I'm just making a point of reference, that's all.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 09:36 AM) There is a difference in b****ing about how poorly your team is doing, and cheering on your team losing. A really big difference. I have never cheered my team to lose. Ever. I have turned off games in disguist, and even laughed at how morbidly funny some of the s*** that happens to us this year is, but anybody that openly roots for a loss really should find a new team.

The 2003 Marlins were not a fluke. They had Pudge, Derrek Lee, Mike Lowell, Luis Castillo in his prime, Alex Gonzalez, Juan Pierre in his prime, Miggy Cabrera....plus Josh Beckett, Willis, Pavano before his arm fell off, Brad Penny, Uggie Urbina as the closer. That team was just DAMN good, nothing else. /mini-rant And wire to wire in their league (not just division), 11-1 in the playoffs World Champions aren't flukes. We were very lucky that year in the sense that everybody went our way and we had a ton of people play way over their heads, which is why the falloff we have had since is not a surprise at all, but it's hard to be a 174 game fluke.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 09:29 AM) Garland only has three pitches. Only one of them is particularly good. He isn't the cerebral Greg Maddux. Not at all. I'm saying he is smart a lot like Maddux, that is all I'm saying. I know Garland's stuff, and I firmly believe it isn't good enough to be a very good pitcher (a la Garland the first 5 years of his career). But when you combine his brains and the stuff he DOES have like he's done as his career went on, he's pretty good. I'm just saying he's smart like Maddux which is the only reason he's any good. Again, I'm saying he'll be a good THREE starter for a long time, that's not a Maddux comparison. QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 09:31 AM) PS: I'm sure there are plenty of people the same way, with negativity taken to the extreme but fairly normal in real life. COUGHtitoCOUGH The only 2 things in life I'm negative about are sports and politics. And usually, my negativity in those regards are proven accurate. Plus, if your negative on ONLY those things, you have a lot of negative to get out on minimum subjects.

Trust me, I am not NEARLY as negative as people think. It's just when I AM negative, I am so over the top that people want to kill me. And with Garland, I am talking about in terms of is cerebral approach only. He never pitches 2 guys the same way, it's just a lot of fun to watch, a la Maddux. A very poor man's Maddux is a better way to put it (although I figured by saying he's going to be a very good THREE starter for a while made that clear). Also, I am in on the Boone Logan society and on the Fields error turned hit by the scorekeeper, it looked to me like he got a pretty bad hop and it wasn't a really easy play or anything. He should have had it, but from my angle it didn't seem inexcuseable. He made a really nice start to the double play by Lee in the 9th to keep us within 1 at least.

Does Whalen understand the concept that this is the first legitmately bad team that isn't in the race we've had since Ozzie got here? Not fun when you suck, no matter who the manager is.

GET MARK HIS FREAKING 100TH WIN ALREADY!!! GET A WIN PERIOD ALREADY!! Houston: Biggio DH Burke CF Berkman RF Lee LF Loretta 2B Ensberg 3B Lamb 1B Ausmus C Everett SS Rodriguez P Sox: Iguchi 2B Gonzalez LF Thome DH Konerko 1B Dye RF Fields 3B Terrero CF Hall C Uribe SS Buehrle P

Tadahito Iguchi seems to be rising back towards his career averages as his batting average, which was .221 as we entered May, is now up to .257 and his on base this year is now .343, right about career average. He is hitting for NO power, so his slugging and OPS are still down a bit, but hey it's progress. Jim Thome is just a fun, fun hitter to watch and he came up with a HUGE hit to tie the game in the first place. Is this a guy we trade next month? He will turn 37 soon and has shown signs of slowly breaking down the last few years, and would bring a pretty penny back here. Josh Fields looked really good. 2 for 3 with 2 singles and a walk and run, including the single in the 8th that started the rally to tie it and get Jennings out of the game. He also looked better than I would expect overall at 3rd, even though he apparently should have had the ball hit to him to start the 9th. It at least LOOKED like to me he was fouling off and laying off sliders nicely too, until he got a pitch more to his liking. Luis Terrero is not anything great, but I've seen enough of him to conclude that he could be a very valuable guy off the bench for us whenever we get good again. He's young, cheap, and can do some things. Heck of a catch yesterday too, and that bunt single was a great idea. I would not be surprised in the least if Paul Konerko gets red hot very soon. I've noticed it a bit on TV, but watching him yesterday gave me the impression he is VERY close to getting on a hot streak. He just looks so so close to crushing it, even when he makes an out. Now i'm not going to go Hawk on everybody and say we're about to hit like hell, but Paulie is close. We've got ourselves, at least, our lefty specialist for a while in Boone Logan. I was right on the field yesterday so I had a good view, and with Logan's stuff, I have no idea how a lefty EVER hits him, so at least that is SOMETHING in the pen. To be the main reason why bases loaded 0 outs turned into only 1 run was Logan, and that meant Thome's hit still tied it. We HAVE TO keep Jon Garland here for a long time. He is about as smart a pitcher as I've seen this side of Greg Maddux, and has the kind of makeup and approach that tells me he could be a good (ie 3rd starter type) pitcher for a really long time. I love Buehrle, but if you put a gun to my head and said keep Buehrle or Garland here for a long time, I give Mark a Cardinals hat and send him south. Hey, it could be worse, we could be Cubs fans right?

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 02:41 AM) That's an assumption on your part and a poor one at that. The fact that anyone assumes or believes that is absolutely ridiculous. The Sox have a pretty good amount of pitching in the minors - albeit, all of it is below AAA - but they have talented arms in the minors. Add to it 2 young OFers in AAA that will very likely be starters at some point within the next 5 years in the majors, as well as Carter, Getz, Hernandez/Lucy, Cunningham, and Fields (even if he is in the majors right now) and I don't think there's any way you can argue that the minor league system is the worst in baseball. I've heard some people mention Washington as the worst. That would be a team that is in a terrible situation, though their major league roster is relatively young. Yeah the assumption around here that we have the worst farm system in the game is something even a negative fatalist like myself can't agree with. We are slightly below average in terms of a farm system, like around 20 out of the 30 teams or so. Our pitching is actually pretty damn good, but we just lack position prospects, which could doom us for a while.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 11:40 PM) a brawl against the tigers turned things around in 2000. Maybe these "nice guys" need a meeting to do something. We fought the Tigers twice (in the 7th and 9th IIRC) of a 14-6 win over them on April 22nd of that year to improve to 11-6 and a game in 1st. That brawl had nothing to do with turning anything around, we were just damn good that year and the fight was fun. QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 01:40 AM) Jim Thome has a 1.025 OPS this season. He is NOT the reason the Sox are in the position they're in. But his 2 run double in the 8th to tie it yesterday wasn't clutch!! The fact people rip somebody on the worst offensive team in the game that has an OPS over 1 is mind boggling to me.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 11:32 PM) He's been working on developing his change, IIRC. I'm not positive on this, but I have read that part of his struggles last year were he was just first throwing the changeup then, and that this year the changeup is both helping him with his GO/AO, as well as the fact he keeps the pitch down is lowering his home run allowed numbers. Now part of it is obviously the ballpark, but he's only given up 6 homers to last years 24, and he's already halfway to last years workload. And I'm sure a part of it is also he's just getting older and better with experience.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 11:04 PM) Yes Fields should have had it, and Berkman didn't have a 1-2 count. When someone is bipolar, doesn't that mean that their mood changes a lot? I've been down on this team all season. Ahh your right it was 2-2. I'd have still liked to see a curve to him though.