chitownsportsfan

why I made the thread my man. these guys are elite and rare. dan z had a very positive piece on the sox published tonight on FG. Someone should make a thread. i've been negative and management remains a problem but from a "guys you need to be good" perspective this season has delivered. cut the dead wood and maybe we got a garden.

Probably the closest timeframe duo but I I looked it up and Valentin was on the way out just as Ray was ascending. Think Jose was 30 and already in decline when Ray was 24 and becoming a great player. So just to clear this up, does anybody really think that if Moncada was moved to 2B tmr he wouldn't immediately make the best young "double play combo" in the last 30 years on the SS at 24, 26 , coming off these monster years? Overall ability, not just defense, because both these guys rake and can run the bases, steals or otherwise.

I'm expecting HTML? :-)

It was def a different time. I thought the same thing looking at his b-ref page. I mean by WAA he was a solid regular but certainly not a star let alone superstar. And my dad growing up wouldn't shutup about guys like Aparcio and how legendary they were. He had a career OPS+ of 86 but somehow put up over 41 oWAR -- musta been a helluva fucking baserunner. I mean he won ROY with an OPS+ of 72! An engel like slash line of 266/311/341. But that was an era when middle infielders just didn't hit at all. Guess that changed in the 90s for various reasons.

It's a fun little experiment to see how our young IF stacks up to historically great young Sox infields. For argument's sake I included Moncada as both a 3B and 2B. If you want to stretch that to Frank Thomas as SS be my guest but the easiest defensive position is a far cry from 3B, SS, 2B and historically has been much easier for the Sox to cover with a star.

Slowest potato sack duo.

RV was a really good player until that horrific foot injury. If Moncada can replicate that here and stay healthy into his late 20s I'd be thrilled.

hard to believe that for most of us under 70 Yoan and Timmie is as good as it gets. Ventura and Ray Durham maybe? Looks like their careers barely overlapped and Robin was fading as Ray was coming on. In 1998 a 30 year old RV and a 26 year old Durham put up combined 10.2 bWAR! Wow.

Personally you can include 1B if you'd like but I'm mostly interested in the harder defensive spectrum positions and that's SS, 2B, 3B which traditionally make up 3 of the hardest 5 positions outside catcher and CF whereas 1B is usually considered the easiest position. I originally wanted it to be "double play combo" but expanded it to 3B when my brain realized we can't really consider Yoan a 2B anymore, but he did play a full season there next to Tim. thanks to @Dick Allen and @RTC

thanks this is the kind of stuff I was looking for. Can you provide and example of two guys putting up over 8 WAR tho? I'm looking through those seasons in the 30s and frankly it looks like Aparicio was an average player that played a really long time and became a "compiler".

For argument's sake we'll consider Yoan a 2B for now that was converted to 3B. It just might be. There are some really good Sox historians here is there any comparison? It doesn't look like Nellie Fox ever had a reliable 2B partner and frankly looking at his stats Fox peaked early and was largely disappointing after that. By the time Jose Valentin showed up Durham was already 28 and Jose was 30 himself. Alexei's best 2B was...Gordon Beckham? Fill me in guys. Any duos in history that can compare? Feel free to include 3B as well. Crede never played with any young SS, only Valentin.

Think it would be another 500-750K maybe a bit more.

This draft is loaded from what everybody is saying. Bonus pool money will be huge, come on Sox lose every game left.

Wouldn't be the worst starting catcher but wouldn't be the best either. If an opportunity is there upgrade but there are bigger fish to fry on the roster. He's probably like a 2 WAR true talent.

Yea he's been run neutral (pretty good for his LF ding) on FG for about two months now. He's been fine. The hand wringing over his initial struggles was over the top but I get it, he looked awful. Probably was a bit of nerves and unfamiliarity with new parks.

Possibly, would take a incredible leap in his batted ball profile. I'm with @JUSTgottaBELIEVE I see an OPS around 900. Getting to Yelich level is something few ever do, if Eloy does it next year he'd be on a path to be one of the greatest hitters of all time. Maybe he can put up a 170 wRC+ in his prime but I don't see it next year. Crawl, walk, run.

He literally has light tower power. There's been some contact issues but the ball explodes off his bat when he makes contact. I'd expect him to get a BABIP boost as well next year. He should be rocking a BABIP higher than 297 (maybe around 310 next year) and that will give him a nice boost on his BA.

Really feel like that stinger on his elbow cost him about 20 points of OPS, oh well, if he can finish over 800 that sets him up nicely with a solid rookie year and should be able to build on that next year and get into the 280/330/540 range.

At least we aren't the Mariners folks.

It would take an AAV around 25 million and a number starting with "3" on the total amount. Not happening in our wildest dreams.

Would be "on pace" for about 7 fWAR if he didn't miss about 35 games. Still is going to finish over 5 unless he absolutely craters over the last 3 weeks. 21st in MLB in fWAR at the moment and t30th in wRC+.

Yoan: .307 .363 .539 137 wrc+ wow.

wow 106 on that for moncada, guess he's ok from the right side.

I love the mariners they make the Sox look like a halfway competent org. Yoan is such a stud.

That's a bad idea because the draft pick is fool's gold and that AAV is 200% too high even at 1 year. Teams will just wait like they did this year until after the draft to sign him. And Jose and his agent know that. Oh, I see you just posted that as a follow up. This is the most obvious team friendly low ball scenario imaginable. Offer him 1 year, 1 option year. AAV around 9-11 million. He won't get better than that on the open market.