Balta1701

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Apr 28, 2015 -> 09:47 AM) With voter turnout less than 50% in Baltimore, how do they expect to affect change? They need to do something other than just b**** and riot. The party that supposedly cares for them is in charge, why can't they fix it? This is a statement by Oriole's COO John Angelos made over the weekend after they had the first issue at the ballpark.

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 28, 2015 -> 10:00 AM) you made a good point. however there are 2 types of rioters at play here. those who want to make a point of abuse, and the other taking advantage of the bedlam happening around them. I totally agree and that's why I keep referring to this as a chemical mixture. The process is exactly the same from place to place. Something bad happens. People get out in the streets because they feel that their voice isn't being heard. Protest starts peacefully, but still surrounded by police in riot gear. Things start to turn ugly, either the people start throwing things or yelling at the police or the police react first to a crowd that vastly outnumbers them, things start to break down, and then people take advantage of the situation. It happens the same way every single time.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 28, 2015 -> 09:35 AM) 1. The police breaking the rules and beating suspects is absolutely not new. In fact, in the modern day surveillance society, I can guarantee you it is substantially less now than it was. It's still bad and needs to be fixed, but people have this weird idea that it is a new phenomenon. It's not. You just hear about it now. 2. Similar trend, people with the whole "society is in so much trouble now" thing. Crime rates have been in general decline for a few decades now, and though there are blips, they still are. Again, you're just seeing it more now. 3. Bad acts by bad actors do not mean other actors can become bad actors in response. That is a spiral of violence. What the cops are doing does not justify violence and looting. Full stop. 4. Police departments in the US are generally far less trained on sub-weapon force and general situational tactics than their bretheren in the rest of the first world. That's part of the issue here. Many large city departments are also far, far less stringent on who they let in in terms of qualifications and testing than the others. The point I'd add is that even though it's not justified...when a community feels wronged by the police over a long time period, that community is primed for an explosion and that's what we keep seeing. The way the police treat these communities on an everyday basis is what sets up these situations. It's not justified, but if all people do is say how unjustified the riot is without dealing with the underlying causes, the end result will be more riots. Hence the gas can analogy i'm using.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 09:54 PM) The best way to change stereotypes is to perform the stereotypical act. Good job young black males of baltimore. QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Apr 28, 2015 -> 09:30 AM) The rioters are uncivilized, no one is extrapolating that out to equal "the whole African american community". That is stupid. Just as stupid as blaming an entire police force for the actions for a few. Just as stupid as blaming an entire group of anyone or anything because of the actions of a small amount of that said group.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Apr 28, 2015 -> 08:47 AM) You're right, it's happened more than that. These types of responses are totally justified now! All I'm doing is taking the same statements these people want to put out about the rioters breaking the law and applying them to the people who broke the law and actually killed a guy. If these riots are uncivilized, if these riots show that the African American community is violent and undisciplined, then the dead body says the exact same thing about the police force. If you keep filling up gasoline tanks and throwing burning matches at them, yelling at the gasoline for exploding isn't going to be very productive.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 28, 2015 -> 08:40 AM) Baltimore Sun Investigates: Undue Force (Sept. 2014): Baltimore has paid about $5.7 million since 2011 over lawsuits claiming that police officers brazenly beat up alleged suspects. One hidden cost: The perception that officers are violent can poison the relationship between residents and police. That's nothing. Chicago has paid out half a billion dollars in the last decade.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 10:33 PM) No one is excusing the cops that f*** up and/or commit criminal acts. Clearly as you cited earlier they pay out in our court system (civilized!) when they do. After all, I'm sure these are the only 2 times this has happened right?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 10:12 PM) It's called civilized society man. The PD f***ing up doesn't give you license to become a criminal. Its a city run by blacks too. It's not Ferguson. This whole "the cops are just racist and have been for decades" excuse is just being abused at this point. I hope Baltimore implodes, anyone with money finally moves out and then the excuses can stop. Yes, civilized society. Locking a guy in the back of the car with no seat belt, driving around hard, slamming him into the sides of the vehicle, and accidentally killing him. You know, civilized. The PD F***ing up doesn't give people excuses to become criminals, but it's worth noting that you used the phrase "the police F***ing up" instead of "the police committing crimes." Fill up a vat of gas, throw lit matches at it, and then become totally astonished and angry at the gasoline for exploding. Then go find another place with gasoline and repeat.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 09:54 PM) The best way to change stereotypes is to perform the stereotypical act. Good job young black males of baltimore. And equally good job Baltimore PD under the same standard right?

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 09:28 PM) i just don't know. i know i have been spouting about this and alot, but baseball is a money maker. i just can't see the owners freely willing to let it be held in another city. look at the sox and the sCrubs, when it was question on playing some games in sox park. that didn't go over well. what will mlb and the money split be. They've done stuff like this before, a series in Miami was played in Chicago like 10 years ago because of a hurricane. It's not a standard procedure but they've done it before.

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 07:17 PM) really nice find. back to baseball for a question, what happens if this craps continues thru tomorrow. i wonder what backup plans mlb has in store. you know as well as i that they are sure discussing this. They've got to plan on Nationals Park unless they're willing to lose all 3 games. National Guard called in so it's likely to get worse before it gets better.

Here's another version of the recent history of this police force compiled just via press reports.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 07:06 PM) I am really out of the loop. What exactly happened to cause these riots? I am sure a black man died because of police but what exactly are they so pissed about and what led up to this? As with all of them, it's not just this event, it's a community feeling like the police have been after them for decades. This one event is just a spark in an already-fueled gas can. edit: example

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 07:02 PM) i have always said this, the police force puts themselves front and center on any crazy stuff. yet they are the forgotten heroes. the problem is, they started this crap as well. damn if you do damn if you don't Apparently the Baltimore PD has paid out tens of millions of dollars in the past few decades after "Rough rides" where people get into the vehicles and then things happen en route. This one just happened to die.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 06:53 PM) Now they got tonight game cancelled they will be back all week trying to shut the games down. They're really not that close to the ballgame tonight.

If you're interested in commenting on the riots and not on the baseball aspect of this please move it to our designated forum for that stuff where Greg was kind enough to create a thread (also please note the multiple documents outlining the rules and permissions for that forum).

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 06:47 PM) Please. This needs to get done and have a DH tomorrow I gotta agree, there's no reason to expect the next 2 days to be any different at this point and a significant chance that it will move back closer to the park.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 04:55 PM) GET OUT THE BUBBLE WRAP RICK! SOMEONE GOT HURT ONCE! I wasn't referring to injury, I was referring to the fact that they kept losing games down the stretch because their arms didn't have it in them to finish. If Rodon is solid but a rookie who struggles on occasion for 3 months and then bad and tired for 2 months, that's really not a huge improvement to me.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 04:50 PM) thats because you are afraid of every pitcher breaking when a inning limit is reached That's because I watched 2 pitchers break in 2012 when their innings limits were reached and that was a key part of that team collapsing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 04:34 PM) Rodon>Danks is the very definition of a WIN NOW move. I continue to fundamentally disagree with this assessment.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 04:31 PM) He wouldn't trade the guy who has been one of the worst starting pitchers in all of baseball and still owed nearly $30 million on a lottery ticket owed half of that amount of money when he has one of the best prospects in all of baseball here to take that starting pitchers job? He'd be a damned fool if he wouldn't. Hell he could release Salty and it would be a positive to open a job for Rodon and free up a lot of payroll simultaenously. It doesn't sound like a "win right now" move to me but at the same time we've got Phil Rogers appearing in posts speculating on Danks to the Cardinals.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 02:22 PM) Oh snaps, I somewhat forgot about that. Where is lostfan. Doesn't he live in the area? Yes but he's been traveling a bunch lately and since they blocked this page from his work he doesn't make it back much. If anyone was going and wanted to shoot him a PM it might get a response.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 02:09 PM) Jesse Spector ‏@jessespector 24m24 minutes ago Edinson Volquez pitched yesterday and dropped his appeal today. How convenient. As long as you apply the same phrase when Sale and Samardzija do the exact same thing.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 10:06 AM) I think its kind of dumb that Wainwright is using his injury as a reason the pitchers shouldnt hit. It isnt like he broke his hand getting hit by a pitch or anything. What happened to him could have happened fielding a grounder off the mound, he didnt even do anything crazy, he just started running and it tore Scherzer complained yesterday about getting hurt while hitting also. It won't be enough to change the NL over IMO, but it's interesting to see more talk about it.

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 27, 2015 -> 09:58 AM) after reading this thread, here is my take. at this juncture, at this time and date. the pen has been absolutely fantastic. they deserved all the glory that anyone wants to heap on them. they are really the saving factor of this season with the soxs wins. now how do they compare with other teams, historical how do they rate, strategically how do they compare?? my only point is, i do not care. i am a sox fan, a die hard sox fan, and the only thing i care about, is the sox winning. how they do it, who cares. i am not smart enuf to think about advance metrics and with ref about other teams, i will deal with them when the sox plays them. sorry for my rant. As of right now, the White Sox have the 8th best bullpen ERA in the big leagues at 2.84. The Royals are on top at 0.78, the Yankees are 2nd at 1.86. Our pen is 9th in the big leagues giving up a .620 OPS, the Cubs are 8th with a .617, the Royals are 1st having given up a .420 OPS. We are 1 of only 2 teams with 0 blown saves, but we have only had 3 official save opportunities. Our pen is 6th in MLB in k/9, 9.59 strikeouts per 9 innings, the Giants are on top at 11.69. We're 15th in MLB in bullpen WHIP and 12th in K/BB ratio, because our pen has pitched the 5th fewest innings in the bigs and yet we're still in the middle of the pack in walks. Overall based on the available stats our pen looks above average, hasn't been used all that much, and isn't up there in the top 5 but is borderline close to it. That assessment is not based solely on ERA, which could be dominated by single games for these guys, but instead taking into account OPS, WHIP, K/BB, etc.