Balta1701

I actually can't tell which of these is which. Personally, I'd say let Quero up to start the year, I see no problem with that. I would put Schultz on something like the setup that Skenes threw last year, conserve his arm in AAA for a month or two then let him in the big leagues. Smith, I dunno, maybe next year a debut late in the season? See what he does? He's thrown 70, 70, and 90 innings in recent years, so pushing his arm up into the low to mid 100s isn't unreasonable.

While true, imagine that roster without either Crochet or Fedde. I think more important could well be that the environment was so toxic thanks to Grifol and the other coaches last year that this really did make the outcomes far, far worse.

FWIW, in 2017 Moncada did not look ready when he was called up. He wasn't called up because he was performing well at AAA, he was called up because Hahn traded Frazier and open spots meant high level prospects must come up. He had a lot of work to do and a really rough 2018.

MLB definitely is happy when you get a Yankees Dodgers World Series, no discussion here. The big spending teams have an advantage. The final 4 teams this year were the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets....and the freaking Cleveland Guardians. For teams that are poorly run, baseball runs poorly for them. For teams that are well run, there is a path to get through, or at least there has been for the last few years unless things have completely changed now that spending has resumed. It isn't easy and you may have more hurdles than the Dodgers, but it can certainly be done.

The 2023 World Series was the Texas Rangers vs. the Arizona Diamondbacks.

If I've done the math right, this is likely <0.3% of MLB revenue during the time period of his contract.

I’m gonna call bullsh*t on this sympathy for the Yankees. In 2004 the Yankees payroll crossed $200 million for the first time, I think with the ARod trade. At the time, their payroll was about 5% of league revenues, estimated about $4.3 billion. MLB revenues should cross $12 billion this year. The $300 million payrolls of the Yankees and Mets will be about 2.5% of that, half the rate of two decades ago. Were the Yankees bankrupt in 2004? If not, this is a massive proportional payroll cut by them. Even if their revenue is growing more slowly than the rest of the league (didn’t YES premier after this?), that’s easily $200 million more their owners are taking home per year. Poor Yankee ownership can’t keep up though.

Apparently he can choose between an opt out and a $4 million a year salary increase.

Failing to deal with a person proselytizing during business hours in the real world is literally an HR violation. Had there been only one case of this, it’s probably fine. The story we have now is of a team that ripped itself apart and hated each other all the way to a loss record. That’s on the players themselves, but also Tony LaRussa and Pedro Grifol, Hahn for not realizing the mess he was creating with his acquisitions, and the development staff for never working to turn these guys into adults as well as not helping Hahn recognize that there was a brewing problem. I’m afraid yeah, your hero is on that list.

This conversation literally started because I said that Nick Madrigal’s bad attitude should probably reflect on the franchise. You can add Anderson, Kopech, Rodon, Colas, and im Sure others I am forgetting to the list of guys where we have heard bad things about their attitude. This is basically constant, the list of guys we hear nothing bad about is shorter.

Yes I can. I think the White Sox’s minor leagues did a terrible job of having these guys grow up. Hahn’s business decisions are on the list too, so this is not an effort to let him off the hook, but Getz should not be either. What is he doing when basically everyone in his system comes up as an attitude problem? Is he recognizing this is a problem and bringing it to his bosses attention? Was he bringing in new people if the attitudes of the older ones weren’t working? I think we are seeing that Getz has a real problem with communication. Problems fester under him and don’t get solved because he doesn’t take steps to solve them. Getz thinks he has good communication with a player and their agent, and then is blindsided by a contract demand.

I’m not prejudging Venable, but in terms of Getz, so many of the attitude problem, uncoachable players that we are excited to dump now are guys who were in the White Sox’s system that I don’t buy the Getz helping with attitudes part. He was clearly part of this attitude mess.

In either case, I think the fact that these and other “bad attitude cases” all suddenly happened under LaRussa is no coincidence. As much as I think you’re right about Madrigal, I can’t ignore the pattern. When everyone has a bad attitude, and every player who leaves either rips the team or gets criticized by their leakers, that’s more than just a problem with any single player and so we should keep that in mind when ripping any players attitude. Edit: under LaRussa, and for minor leaguers coming up, under Getz.

2018 was the peak of the almost collusion under the last CBA that was definitely suppressing player salaries. That probably has reset itself now that more teams are actually trying. One other interesting point about Sotos money, and I think it’s one the Dodgers realize. Because of Covid, from 2019-2023 MLB’s revenues are nearly flat, 2023 was the first year in 5 where they hit a new revenue high. If you think Harper and Machado’s deals look good, they look good entirely due to suppressed salaries at signing, not due to revenue growth because there wasn’t any. While another pandemic virus is possible right now, it seems reasonable to guess continued revenue growth has a good shot of happening. If revenues are going up at 5% a year again, then a $300 million payroll right now for the Dodgers or Mets will be close to a $600 million payroll by the time a 13 year deal ends for Soto. If the White Sox can support a $175 million payroll right now, then anything less than a $350 million payroll at the end of a Soto deal is profit-taking by the owner.

Because the rest of the clubhouse hated Liam. Some of that may have been politics, some attitude, we aren’t sure. Kinda the same as Madrigal. That was in one of the tell all articles this year. Which makes me think that this is also part of the staff and player choice problems too.

I am officially old enough to not want this to happen because at some point I would confuse one for the other while reading a post.

As with Kopech, Lynn, Moncada, Eloy, Robert, Hendricks- if there’s no player on your team where you don’t say “there were clubhouse issues with him” then the problem is likely your clubhouse. That should be acknowledged even for guys like Madrigal. The portions of the attitude we saw and didn’t like certainly could be things LaRussa encouraged.

Is there a big difference between a pick at the top of the 2nd round (technically slot 40) and compensatory pick # 32 in the 2013 draft?

Better chance of dumping that salary at a deadline too.

And yet guys including Carlos Santana and Justin Turner have remained effective at least average players into their late 30s.

Naw, payroll is so low right now there’s no reason to defer anything. Fan interest is also so low right now that a large chunk of his deal will pay for itself in the first few years even if they’re still poor. The one thing you can’t give him is a full No Trade Clause, because in 5 years you might want out if that deal and you could probably cash him in for a strong prospect if needed, and if you haven’t deferred anything then that makes him easier to trade if he comes to that.

One caveat. If you could find a player in his mid 20s who probably has a hall of fame career still coming and who might be effective in 2040, taking advantage of your super low payroll to sign this guy early would be a smart move even if your team is a year or two away. The Phillies and Padres fully demonstrated this with Harper and Machado, and now those contracts look fine or even like bargains. I wonder if there’s a player right now who would fit this description.

Put him in a better position for success starting in 2020. Communicate with him often, make sure he understands their plans for him. Start him off in AAA in 2021 and build his body back up slowly while also building up his mind, let his confidence in himself and in his coaches grow by letting him grow up into the role of a starter at a pace that works for him.

Welcome to the party Jeff. One question - why exactly do you think that Andrew Vaughn is the kind of good player who should be paid whatever it takes to keep? I don't think I need to see any more of him after 4 years, I'm good with letting him go for nothing.