Milkman delivers

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:45 PM) Umm.....yeah, people on Facebook are saying this. I just had a big argument last night w/ some people on Facebook because they said that the PSU students were having a "pro pediphilia rally" and if you think Paterno should not have been fired then you are a child molester just like he is. Trust me, people, at least on Facebook, are ACTUALLY likening what Paterno DIDN'T do to being just as bad as what Sandusky DID do. You're now bringing in the dregs of society, the unwashed, uneducated majority of Facebook users. That doesn't need to be dragged into this thread.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:29 PM) So new theory: The cover-up in 98 and subsequent forced retirement in 99 stems directly from the top brasses knowledge that Sandusky was pimping out kids to a whole lotta rich, rich donors to the school. If they reported him not only would they open up Penn State to embarrassment, but they further could have risked Sandusky outing all the rich donors. Not at all justifying any of this of course. Just wondering if that was why they didn't report him and allowed him to stick around. I want to not believe this because it would suggest that there are lots and lots of pedophiles out there, certainly more than I would have suspected. To think that a lot of pedophiles are rich is also somehow tough to comprehend.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:45 PM) And Milk, I'm still waiting to hear what you're implying by saying you would expect those "defending" Paterno to be the ones to do so... I find the people who are more on the "defending" side are those that most frequently find themselves disagreeing with the majority.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:35 AM) Which is why Spanier, Curley, Schultz, and Paterno have lost their Jobs, which you continue to gloss over. Every single one of those guys was a link in a failed chain of command. Look, we all know the media is focusing on JoePa. He is the focal point of the university, he has been for 50 something years. That doesnt mean he is the only one who got blamed here, he is just the biggest name here. Nobody knows who the f*** Spanier, Curley and Schultz are. And I totally agree, McQueary should not be coaching at Penn state anymore. So very, very simple.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:20 PM) My bias? I dont care for Paterno, I dont care for PSU. I just happen to be involved with lawsuits on a daily basis, and my opinion is based on my experience. Why do you think McQuery is more credible? What has he done in this matter, to make you believe hes telling the truth? Did he call the police? Did he report it immediately? Your bias is your undying need to take the opposing side of any argument, while never, ever admitting to being wrong. You're very good at it, too, don't get me we wrong. When given evidence against your argument, you alter your stance ever so slightly and attack either small aspects of the opposing theory or create arguments that aren't being made by anyone. And then you just argue and argue until nobody gives a s*** anymore and just drops it because of the futility of it.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:33 AM) Kyle, My guess is that when mcquery went to Paterno, he told him that he saw something strange, but he wasnt exactly sure what it is. My next guess is that as this investigation began to blow up, Mcquery changed his story to protect his ass. If you notice, he hasnt been fired, even though he was arguably the first line of defense and an eye witness. Milkman, You do know in a grand jury, you dont get to cross examine the witness, right? That is how you attack credibility. If I go in a grand jury and make up a story that I saw you raping kids, Im going to sound extremely credible. It doesnt mean its true, because when your attorney gets to cross me in the trial, hell tear me apart. Exactly, you're willing to paint McQueary as the bad guy because it suits your defense of Paterno. Your bias here is absolutely ludicrous and I'm glad that absolutely nobody is buying your bulls***.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:30 AM) bmags, A child molester was running rampant on PSU campus. Joe Pa reported it to PSU. The people who are responsible are PSU, if you are going to fire Paterno, you need to burn that school to the ground as well. The real criminals are the President etc, the ones who had a duty to report but failed to report. Had they simply followed the law, we arent here today. As for a PR class, this is the most brilliant PR move by PSU. They fire a coach who they already wanted to get rid of, and that means they made the right decision? What about the fact they knew about this for months (if not years) and didnt terminate Paterno? They still havent terminated the GA. Its entirely a PR move. And the sad part is that media is eating it up. They arent asking the hard questions, HOW DID PSU LET THIS HAPPEN? Steve, Firing Paterno, not firing Paterno, wont make any difference for the children. You have to compartmentalize if you want to deal with terrible things. You want to save children, burn down PSU. Show every other school in the nation that if your President fails to follow the law, that the school goes down with the ship. That will change things. Paterno being fired changes nothing. I have yet to hear why PSU shouldnt be taking the brunt of the blame here. So I guess maybe Im more a champion for the innocents than you are, because I want there to be real justice, for the true criminals. I dont care about scapegoats, that is just to obscure the real truth there. And that truth is that Penn State primarily failed these children, not Joe Paterno. Your inconsistencies and assumptions are just pathetic. You claim that the entire university needs to be burned to the ground because they all knew about the rape. Unlike Paterno and everyone else who has been fired (besides McQueary for some reason), there is no proof that anyone else knew anything. But you want them all fired because of that, while you don't want Paterno fired when there is undeniable proof that he was given information about it. And you keep saying that the real criminals are the President and AD. That is true, and they are likely going to be tried as criminals for lying to the Grand Jury.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:25 AM) So in your estimation, either McQueary lied, or the rape he witnessed wasnt nearly as terrible as we all think Never mind that the Grand Jury found his testimony to be very strong. We all know those are shams.

Haha, there's no point in arguing with this guy. I preemptively urge everyone to not respond.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:05 AM) I don't know if I would go that far, but I don't get the praise that he is somehow upon the greatest leaders baseball has ever had. The guy personally whiffed on one of the biggest issues to the integrity of the game in the steroid scandal. If he invokes his "good of the game" powers to institute real drug testing and penalties, we aren't still sitting here today wondering about guys like Jose Bautista, or anyone from the last 25 to 30 years who put up big numbers. His being scared of the big bad players union is going to be something that affects the discussion of players for the rest of the history of baseball. You will never be able to have a conversation about this era, without it going back to cheating, and that sucks. Selig might not have been able to stop it completely, but he could have stopped the bleeding. Selig is the embodiment of letting the inmates run the asylum. And this not only affects the 20 years he's been commissioner, it's going to be incredibly hard for the next guy to right the ship (if he even wants to do so). After two decades or more of letting these guys have their way in almost every imaginable aspect, it's going to be exceedingly difficult to rein things back in.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 10:37 AM) There are some days where I wish Bud Selig had a backbone. He doesn't need the consent of the players union to do this. Bud Selig is the worst thing to happen to baseball since the Black Sox Scandal. He's worse than the strike.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 10:45 AM) jcrasnick Jerry Crasnick #Pirates announce they've signed free agent catcher Rod Barajas. Ah Pittsburgh, the last stop on the forced retirement train.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 10:40 AM) Stop caring about Joe Paterno. People want to take up the cause of a celebrity, it's commonplace. It reminds me of A Bronx Tale, if anyone here has seen it. "You think Mickey Mantle's gonna pay your rent?" In this case, it's more like: "You think Joe Paterno's gonna prevent your child from being raped in his facilities?"

QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 10:18 AM) Wrong. In 2002 Sandusky was not employed by the University and it did not involve any current University students. It still happened while Sandusky was a coach before 2002. And Paterno has been the head of the program for over 60 years.

It's a shame. He needs to be s***canned.

Man, the players' union has way too much power in baseball. One thing I'd love to see is the guaranteed contracts taken away. It'll obviously never happen, though.

I know there are people of Middle Eastern descent throughout the world, but that still made me do a double take.

QUOTE (Whitewashed in '05 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:25 AM) Apparently you didn't read into my lengthy two sentences. Even if you would bring your wife and kids to the United States, how can one leave everything and everyone else behind? There's more to family than wife and kids, you can't move everyone. I'm not going to go back and forth with you. Immediate family, to me, is more than just wife and kids. Either way, it doesn't matter. My explanation is the only foolproof way to prevent oneself or one's loved ones from being kidnapped. Any other way, you risk it. Period, end of story.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 09:56 AM) The writer seems credible but he openly states it's a rumor at this point. Yes, I know.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 08:50 AM) Wow, this season of Dexter, which had such a terrible debut episode, has really been great the past few weeks, and this Sunday's episode just pushed it to new heights. Dexter has actually flipped, replacing Harry with Brian in his mind means he's going to be evil as f*** for a bit. The idea that someone is emulating the Trinity Killer killings is awesome as well (my money is on the son). Well done, writers, as you've started clicking on the dark humor and the evil that 'Dexter' should be all about... I f***ing love it. I think they suggested that pretty strongly

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 09:50 AM) I don't think a precedent was needed which makes this all the more shocking. Child rape seems to be the worst thought of crime in this country, even on the level of murder. Apparently it was needed.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 09:31 AM) You know, I'm going to remain highly skeptical of this. Probably so I don't lose my faith in humanity. Yeah, I'm taking this with a huge grain of salt right now. But the writer seems highly credible at this point...

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 09:06 AM) If nothing else, the one good thing the firing of Paterno might do is to send a wake-up call to the rest of the country as to how important it is to take any kind of child-sex allegation very seriously and not to stick your head in the sand. I actually thought the same things. This could end up being a landmark occasion that sets a strong precedent.

Watching the coverage of the riots, I was impressed with one PSU student in particular. He had the balls to tell it like it is (the view of the majority of this thread) while morons were all around him chanting mindless support of Paterno. The ESPN guy even asked him if he felt safe and he answered that he didn't, but felt that someone needed to be reasonable and show that not all of the PSU students are blind apologists (obviously). QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 08:49 AM) And yet, despite the special ire people hold for the specific priests that molested children, they are still very angry at the church for protecting their own and not the children. There is no moral uncertainty on what should happen to Sandusky. But with Paterno and Mcquarry there is uncertainty in others about what responsibility we all have to protect the vulnerable. And to those like myself who find that they failed miserably, there is more determination to make sure that is voiced. Just because JoePa might not be legally responsible, does not mean he morally culpable to the problem. Sandusky was using his status as a PennSt. former coach, his access to their facilities, to rape children. And they knew it. If Sandusky was shooting fish in a barrel, they provided the barrell and water and didn't ask for why. Very good points there.

One thing I can say is that I'm not surprised at all by the posters defending Paterno and attacking the decision to fire him. It's the exact posters I would have suspected would do so.