Milkman delivers

QUOTE (Whitewashed in '05 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 11:58 PM) Sure, get wealthy, leave your home country, and never look back. It isn't as if family matters. Apparently you didn't read the lengthy TWO sentences I wrote. In them, I explained that it would be difficult and suggested bringing one's family with to America.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 11:24 PM) I dont believe that these incidents define what Joe Paterno has done for thousands of other people. If Paterno isnt a frail old man, this is treated completely differently. He just cant stand up for himself and the school is screwing him again. The first time they screwed him by not following the law and now they are screwing him by pretending that they are now concerned about an incident that happened 9 years ago. Once again PSU has known what Paterno did since 2002, if it was such a bad offense, why was he only fired now? This isnt news to PSU board of trustees, you dont think they were aware of the facts while the grand jury was going on? So wait, you're saying that the entire school or BOT is at fault there? Because I'd have to say that's incorrect. I seriously doubt very few people on the BOT knew about the allegations. It sounds like the buck got passed from McQueary to Paterno, and then from Paterno to Curley to Schultz. That seems to be about it.

But apparently only those young men.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 11:18 PM) Milkman, Paterno has a contract, The only reason Penn State can get away with this is Paterno already said hed retire and they know they know he wont fight it. Obviously I havent seen Joe's contract, but I suspect that there are pretty specific reasons for being terminated, and none of them include failing to call the police after reporting an incident to the school. Paterno is taking the fall for PSU, Im not sure why more people dont see this. PSU is the one who failed here. Paterno also failed. And I believe Rock already pointed out a rule from the NCAA that says you can basically fire a coach for not being a good role model or some s***.

QUOTE (juddling @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 08:45 PM) FWIW, the hitman(men) thought she was going to be by herself since that was the intel they got from Clay. They weren't expecting someone to be there packing a gun. Maybe if they used a wider shot and we could have seen the layout of the park maybe it would have seemed more believable when Jax caught up to van. I thought the Clay/Gemma scenes were pretty good this week. I hope the writers realize they are backing themselves into a corner with Clay. At this pace...there is NO WAY they can keep him alive after this season. Two things: 1.) Romeo called the hitman immediately after Clay called him. He told him that Jax was with her. 2.) They showed the hitman scoping out the scene on the bench. If Romeo hadn't gotten through to him, which he did, he would have seen it for himself.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:59 PM) Milkman, Ive looked it up, but thanks for the tip. If Paterno wasnt 84 at worst PSU would suspend him without pay pending an investigation into his actions. It doesnt matter anymore, but had Paterno's superiors followed the law, we wouldnt be having this conversation. It was the superiors who committed the criminal acts. And has been stated repeatedly in this thread, the criminal acts have nothing to do with this. We're not looking for Paterno to go to jail. We're all in agreement that he would be found not guilty in court, as he did the bare minimum to prevent something like that. That doesn't save his job, though. He'd have saved his job if he followed up on the allegations or contacted the police himself/forced his supervisors into doing it. And let's not act like he didn't have the power.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:24 PM) Rock, Reuben Carter spent how many years in jail. If people stop, people get railroaded. I may be right, I may be wrong, but I damn well am going to uncover every stone, go through every damn piece of evidence, before I ruin a guys life. I dont care if its the most heinous crime and the most unlikable victim, Im going to make sure that I damn well know everything. So tell me to stop, but remember that anyone can be falsely accused and that if no one is there to challenge the accusations, we will all be sorry. There is plenty of time to find out the facts, its not like Paterno coaching 4 more games is going to change the fact that the school let him coach for 9 years after the incident, entirely aware of the incident. It seems hypocritical that PSU only cares now that there is a firestorm of media. But none of its really relevant, this is about the simple fact that the American system has been so screwed up that people take dicta statements in an govt complaint as fact. (And dont worry I wont post to you again, I already had done this before you requested.) Haha, perfect that you would bring up The Hurricane. Besides being sensationalized by a movie and Bob Dylan, the evidence overwhelmingly suggests that he was guilty. Go look it up.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:01 PM) Im not even sure what you are trying to say. But I do get that its a lot easier to react to terrible tragedies by wanting to kill everyone as some sort of an attempt to make things right. Unfortunately there is really no correlation. Destroying Paterno wont save more children from being molested, it will just destroy an 84 year old man. I understand the easy answers, I just choose to give the hard but just answer. My God, your cockiness is beyond infuriating.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 09:41 PM) Is there any evidence that Paterno witnessed a crime? Any evidence at all. Im seriously asking because you are all taking a grand jury indictment as fact, when its completely bogus. Everyone got their pound of flesh, but what is being done to Paterno isnt right. He isnt the criminal here, he isnt the one that saw a child being abused, he is the guy who reported to his superiors as he is supposed. He had 0 credible evidence to call the police about, its seriously absurd. But yes I get that its far easier to crucify everyone, than to ask yourself, should Paterno be given a fair chance to defend his actions. Im sure you all know at a grand jury you dont get to present any exculpatory evidence, and that a grand jury is nothing like a real trial and that many people are indicted and found innocent. /shrugs I get that it easy to say lets kill Paterno, but some of us have to try and be fair, regardless of how terrible the crime may be. Aw, you're better than us. Go provide your services to Paterno for free, then. Nobody here gives a s*** about your defense attorney crap.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 09:40 PM) Well, one thing is clear, the Board of Trustees acted in the correct way with cleaning house of the people that were at least aware of the information. All except McQueary. I'm still catching up, but McQueary absolutely has to go. No two ways about it.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 09:24 PM) Doubt it. Nor should it make a difference. Seriously, to both.

I'm glad he's fired. Go f*** yourself, Joe! QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 09:13 PM) I think we also have to recognize that Sandusky is innocent until proven guilty. A grand jury indictment is not even close to a conviction. This is just to be devils advocate, but what happens if it turns out that Sandusky is innocent? It would be a lot different if Sandusky was convicted. I know you're a lawyer and playing Devil's advocate, but shut up. There are about 20 kids coming forward.

This is going to sound harsh and probably pretty difficult to do, but when you make it to America to play baseball, don't go back to your s***hole countries anymore. And if you get far enough to earn a good amount of money, move your immediate family here with you.

Wait a f***ing second. This might have been mentioned and I glossed over it, but that DA who decided not to follow up with the case in 1998 has been missing since 2005 and was declared legally dead in July of this year. I don't even know what to think about that in regards to this case. Anyone? Complete coincidence?

Drake? I've only ever seen girls talk about him or post his songs on Facebook. I am not exaggerating even a little.

And his use of his charity to locate his victims and cover his tracks as a good person reminds me way too much of the Trinity Killer on Dexter.

To get back on track of how much of a monster this guy is, it's so very creepy the way he followed the same protocol almost to a T with each victim. He'd touch their left thighs on car rides, then he'd exercise with them (perhaps wrestle), then get them to shower even if they didn't want to do so. And when the child inevitably chooses a shower far from his, he convinces them to come closer, and slowly initiates contact and eventually holds the child in place physically to do whatever sick thing he felt. He is truly a predator in nearly every sense of the word.

I really don't like the idea that people saying they would have contacted the authorities is them being on a high horse or a "morals messiah". We're not talking about witnessing someone skimming a few bucks from the church collection plate or grabbing a few extra Snickers off of the porch of the guy who's too lazy to actually hand out Halloween candy, and then keeping it to yourself. We're talking about the failure to inform the proper authorities (police) about a mother.f***ing.child.rape. That's not acting holier than thou. It's just the action of a not-terrible person with a soul or even the slightest sense of defending the innocent.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:50 PM) Well, I think inaction happens all the time. I think it happens far more than we would like to believe. I think people see harm and crimes and terrible, terrible things happening all the time and either do the legal minimum, don't do anything at all, or certainly don't do what they would have claimed to do before encountering the situation. I had a member of the clergy try some very shady s*** on me at a university I attended. I am sure I wasn't the only one he did it to, honestly. As a matter of fact, he was indeed banished from the university for his inappropriate actions towards young men. This man was a family friend of ours. My brother had known him for years. I came home after the incident and my own mother did not believe this man could possibly have tried something on me. My brother did not believe me either. I left it there. I did not report it to police. I did not report it to school authorities. I figured why would the police or the school authorities believe me if my own family did not? Not until later did my family believe me when this guy was forced to leave. Now I don't want to pretend as though I was a victim likes these kids were. But this guy would have tried to make me one had I allowed it. It's really some sick s*** when you find this out about someone you trusted, someone you were friends with or close to. Not everyone has the stomach to try to bring them to justice for their sickness. I guess I should have. I guess I might have saved some other person from having this guy try something sick on them. But do I feel as though I should be condemned? Or that it was a moral failure of mine? No. I think this is a lot more complicated for a person to be involved with than you guys would like to believe. I understand where you're coming from, as I would probably not know what to do if I were a child in that situation. I'm assuming you were a child, though. And these people who did nothing were not children. They were full-grown men in positions of power. There is quite a difference.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) Of course it's entirely speculation...but based on how odd that police/DA action appears to be...would folks be surprised if the reason why the police didn't push forwards farther winds up actually being "It was Penn State Football"? I wouldn't be surprised in the least. But I don't like the fact that we're being told to give Paterno some leeway until we find out the results, but we should be angry at the police for doing nothing when there might also be evidence that allows them to be seen in a much better light.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:33 PM) Well, this is why I am more outraged at the administration and the authorities than Joe Paterno. I find their incompetence infinitely more worthy of discussion. Their incompetence is definitely worthy of anger, but step back and think that they actually tried. Perhaps somebody incorrectly labeled evidence or some s*** and that's why it had to be dropped. Now if something like that is actually what happened, is that worse than high ranking members of PSU not following through on allegations? I don't think so. And I'm only asking under that caveat; that the police f***ed up some small detail that rendered the case inadmissible.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:28 PM) Is there really a more obvious piece of evidence that the administration knew what was going on? I made a joke about how obvious it was earlier.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:19 PM) If Paterno cut a life-long friend out of his life, that's a pretty clear indication that he didn't think the allegations were baseless. You are killing it in this thread, by the way.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) PSU doesn't really have anything to do with the victims, though. It's a police/judicial matter at this point. He's trying to deflect attention. Great point.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:03 PM) I've tried. I've tried to enjoy SOA with a suspension of disbelief, but it's getting really hard. How many groups of trained professionals have to continually f*** up their job before this show just becomes poorly written. Seriously, last week the entire cartel can't execute a planned strategy to take out their rivals, and this week three guys can't get Tara the f*** away from Jax when they abduct her when he's seriously 100 yards away? They take off, Jax stops by the car to look at his kids, pulls out a pistol, and starts running after a vehicle that had a minimum 45 second head start. He's a God damned T-1000. So, of course, Tara is saved. I dunno. I still like the show, but this storyline is just too ridiculous at this point. Also, I wish Gemma would have just gone with the murder/suicide so both she and Clay would be gonezo. Welcome to my side of the argument, a.k.a. the right side And yes, remember how the hitman was told to make it look like some kind of accident so that it couldn't come back to Clay? How in the f*** would her being kidnapped right in front of Jax look like an accident? I realize that they were going to make it look like the rival cartel, but I'm fairly certain the last thing Clay said was to make it look accidental. The show is still fun most of the time, but its writing has gone downhill. It's almost like watching a TV show directed by M. Night Shyamalan. It's written backwards just to have a "WOW I DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING" moment every few episodes.