Milkman delivers

I have so little faith in mainstream politicians that I'd vote for Ventura just for the hell of it.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) Cool. Then we agree. If that's all. But to me, and I'm not saying this is the case with you in particular, there's some that seem to want a lot more than him simply losing his job. Not really anybody in this thread, though. That is, unless more evidence comes out that he knowingly swept it under the rug. Then, I'd want more done.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:55 PM) He's not innocent. He deserves to be fired. What else do you want? Jail time? If so, then that loud sound you here at the moment is me hysterically LMAO. That's exactly what we want. Period.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:53 PM) So what is the point of the thread? Is it the victims of child molestation in environments that cater to their presence, by people that they should be able to trust and look to as role models? Or is the point that Joe Paterno is getting publicly slayed for being the head coach of a football team at a university where these events happened? I mean, the title of the thread says "Penn State Horror Story." I guess I just inferred from that that the actual "story" and how and why it is being reported was fair game. I guess we should just change the thread title to "Joe Paterno tolerated child molestation at Penn State," since that is really what this thread is about. OK.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:51 PM) The media are exploitative vultures and ESPN is a godless monster. Can we get back to discussing why Joe Paterno doing literally the bare minimum he could in a case involving first-hand accounts of child rape is somehow ok? Because the guy was his friend and he didn't want to believe it, duh.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:46 PM) Sort of proving iamshack's point - ESPN has been working hard to hire Charles Robinson, an investigative reporter for Yahoo that tends to break a lot of big scandals: http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/11/09...arles-robinson/ In other words: scandals = audience = $$$$$$$$$$. Victims? Who cares. But again, that isn't the point of this thread. So, who cares? Someone should start a thread in the Filibuster about sensationalizing the news.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:40 PM) That was an intense episode. The SOA are a small part in the cartel war. The warring cartels are more about the Sons using their high tech weaponry. The whole warfare plot line is silly though. Also just because Tara can not be a surgeon does not mean her career is over. A major head injury possibly but she could still find plenty of work. It does make it a good storyline for why they have to stay though. I guess we also see why the Unser and Gemma storylines were so prominent this season. I think Gemma, Unser and Clay are all dead before this season wraps. I believe Unser and Clay will be dead, but there is absolutely no chance that Gemma is.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:37 PM) He's a freaking football coach! He's not a gangleader. "Gang" has an extremely negative connotation, which is exactly why you're choosing that word. Regardless, I know what you're trying to say...and I agree he should lose his job. I was merely trying to equate it with an easily identifiable group of people doing something wrong. I could have said the same thing but used corrupt politicians as the analogy. Either way, it's going to be compared to people doing something wrong because they were doing something wrong.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:28 PM) Your analogy was a s***ty one though, and that is exactly why I am complaining about the media here. Not 4 days after the news breaks, you've got people comparing Paterno to a gang leader of bank robbers. Umm...no. Next we will compare him to the German SS and Heinrich Himmler. OK, in my analogy, which is purely hypothetical, Paterno isn't the gang leader. He's a member of a gang that are all responsible for something bad, and he's being crucified in the media as being the ringleader who is the most to blame, all the while he is not. I think that it's actually spot on.

QUOTE (kev211 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:16 PM) I'd easily take less to play somewhere I felt comfortable and had a chance to win. The amount less I would take would depend on how much I am making. Allow me to take care of this before someone somehow even snarkier than me does it: That's easy to say, but you have nowhere near the talent these guys do. If you were one of them, there's no way on Satan's hairy, red ass you'd take less money. You'd want to make as much money as humanly possible for yourself and your family. You can talk a big game all want from your mom's basement about how you'd ride in on your high horse, take half the salary you could earn, and stay in your hometown to win a title. But when you're faced with the money, you'd take it every time. That about covers this thread.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:21 PM) 1) Sandusky's fate is in the legal system and no amount of media/public attention/scrutiny is going to affect that. Media/public attention/scrutiny most certainly plays a role in Paterno's fate. 2) Being in the legal system, Sandusky's fate will be determined at a snail's pace. Paterno's fate can be decided within a couple days. So yes, there are a couple good reasons why Paterno is the bigger story right now. It doesn't mean that what he did was worse. Perfect!

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:15 PM) Oh, so now Paterno is a gang member and a bank robber, because he was the main figurehead? So by your analogy, Paterno is a child molester? Do you see why this being reported this way is a problem? I led off my statement by saying that it's unfair that he's being labeled as a main bad guy. My point is that there is a group of guys all involved together like a gang (Sandusky, Paterno, AD, GA, etc.). They are all guilty of doing something (failing to alert authorities/robbing), but one guy is guilty of doing something much worse (child molestation/murder). It might be unfair for one of the guys to take the media hit as being the center of it all when he's only guilty of a lesser crime, but that in my opinion, I really don't give a s*** who gets crucified by the media if they all get their just dessert. In no way am I saying that Joe Paterno has ever donned a Richard Nixon mask and robbed a bank only to be thwarted by Keanu Reeves. It's simply an analogy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:12 PM) Who exactly is labeling him "The main bad guy". He committed a fireable offense. I don't think anyone here has suggested he go to jail. The people above his head are facing legit jail time, as is the actual main bad guy. I don't f***ing know, man. Apparently the media is portraying this as being about Joe Paterno. That's the only thing I'm referring to.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:02 PM) The point I am trying to make, that is being incredibly misunderstood, is that the media will trip over themselves as to who can articulate how sad this is for the victims, and then immediately switch gears and make this as much about Joe Paterno and Penn State as possible, so as to blow up the story for their own benefit. And yet, the kids this happened to are just as real anywhere as those that it happened to at Penn State. I personally have no sympathy for Paterno. It's unfair that he's being labeled as the main bad guy here, but it's like blaming a member of a gang that robs banks for killing a guy when it was one of the other members. The guy is still a bank robber and as long as they all go down, I don't care about the individual sentences. That's just my opinion, though.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:56 PM) I'm not being a devil's advocate, it was my impression of the coverage all day yesterday morning. And don't mistake what I've been typing - I've not accused anyone of the people posting in this thread of blaming Paterno for molestation. I'm merely pointing out the disingenuousness of the sports radio mouthpieces and the tv talk shows. I don't care if they want to sell their souls for the sake of money, but the story is almost entirely about Joe Paterno now, and to a far lesser degree about Sandusky. That's the problem I have with it. And that's a legitimate problem to have. But when you think about it, having it be about Paterno in the media is going to cause real change to be done and justice to be served.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:56 PM) Nothing called for him to do anything else at the time. Yeah, you could go out there and possibly sever somebody's reputation for life based off of second-hand information. He didn't go that route. And I don't think he should be demonized for that. We all on the internet like to act big and bad and "this is what I would've done" and talk tough or whatever. Not tha vanilla. You'd probably be the defense attorney's ideal candidate to be on a jury

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) Have you read the thread? Have you listened to the radio? Have you watched the talk shows? Everyone is entirely positive that they would have immediately run in and stopped everything they witnessed, called the police, then if the police didn't handle it, they would have called in the National Guard, and if it was appropriately handled then, they would have devoted their life to following this child molester around everywhere he goes so as to ensure he never so much as looked at a child again because we all owe it to the potential victims. Again, I'm not condoning anything that was done, but the degree of outrage towards Joe Paterno right now is simply out of control right now because everyone is fixated on the hero getting slayed in public...if this happened on the campus of Montana State or something, it would be a story for 3 days and then we would all forget about it. And yet the kids who were the victims of it would still be just as real. Then I guess we should be happy that it happened under Paterno, as otherwise it would get swept under the rug and perhaps go unresolved. The fact that Joe Paterno is involved is attracting a media frenzy that will ultimately lead to justice.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:49 PM) With all due respect that is total bulls***. Nobody is going to make the mistake of saying Paterno is the one who was the criminal in this (outside of perjury). Our discussion has nothing to do with the media and everything to do with the facts presented so far in this case. Joe Paterno is by far the most powerful man in State College. His direct report was investigated for molestation over 13 years ago. This man then mysteriously retired from his position. This man was then implicated by another one of Joe's employees of molestation first hand 4 years later. The dept then banned this man from having children on PSU property. All of the higher ups who made these decisions and then lied to the Grand Jury are in the wrong. Its clear that the most powerful man at the University who was also directly involved in the chain of information and decision making is going to take ALOT of heat. Thank you, too! I don't know what is so f***ing hard to understand. Motherf***ing Devil's advocates.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:48 PM) The media's coverage and whether or not Paterno, McQueary, the AD, etc. failed morally are two separate issues. You can place some of the blame on Paterno but still lament him being the focus of the story. Thank you!

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:45 PM) No, the problem is that Paterno is the story now. And if you don't take the time to actually read the facts, you might think Paterno actually molested children himself. And then 20 years from now, Paterno's name is going to come up, and someone is going to say "isn't that that old geezer who coached Penn State for 50 years and was caught molesting kids?" The media needs to be more responsible with the story instead of just irresponsibly making this into what will get the biggest ratings or website hits. Then take this pissing and moaning to the media. The people on this site seem pretty clear that Paterno is not the person who raped the children, nor do they believe he should be thrown in jail. They understand that he, and others, have failed in one way or another morally and deserve to be fired.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) Sandusky admitted molesting a child to the police and they did nothing themselves! But we're going to persecute Paterno more for not telling the police, than the actual police, who were told by the criminal himself and did nothing! How is that not the bigger story here? I don't care if he loses his job; it's time for him to move on anyways. And honestly, it's probably good for us as a society that the shortcomings of these godlike figures on college campuses are being brought to light, because maybe it will open their eyes to the fact that these are just people, capable of making mistakes just like the rest of us. But of course right now, everyone else feels the need to stand up and tell the world how much of a "moral failure" Joe Paterno is, and how we all would have risen to the occasion and handled the situation perfectly. We're all also qualified to damn Paterno to hell, since the media and the rest of us commentators are all such "moral superstars." Give me a break. Then the police should also come under the hammer. I don't think we disagree there at all. And sorry for judging Paterno, but that's the f***ing world. He failed and it is now common knowledge. I've never walked in on a boy being raped, nor have I been told first-hand of such a thing. I can't say exactly how I'd react. Unfortunately for everyone in this scenario, that has no bearing whatsoever on the situation. I may not be morally superior to Paterno, but I can look at his actions and decide correctly that he still failed morally.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:37 PM) Paterno could have gone to the police with the GA, another trusted colleague. He could have followed up after the AD clearly found that something had happened and banned Sandusky from bringing kids around. He could have made sure that a real investigation happened and that the victim was found. Yes, again, he is more at fault than Paterno. That's been said many, many times now. That's a problem with arguments on this site. People seem to think the answer has to be A or B, nothing else is possible. The GA and Paterno are both at fault here, the GA likely much more than Paterno. It's not the GA or Paterno or the AD or the VP. It is all of them to various degrees. Fire them all.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:36 PM) I don't give a s*** what he heard. "Hey Boss, I heard from somebody the other day that Rowand44 was dry-humping a 10-year old." I'm not sprinting over to the police station over some s*** like that. I am not usually a fan of the way the media handles a lot of things, but I'm glad they're not taking the childish approach that you are.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:33 PM) Its easy for people who dont handle or work with sensitive situations to say what they would have done. Its a lot harder knowing that if Paterno reported it, and it wasnt true, that Paterno could have basically ruined his friends life over hearsay. If the graduate assistant believed he saw a crime, it was up to him to get the police involved. It's too bad that all of us haven't found ourselves in this situation so we can know for sure what we'd do. What we do know is that Paterno failed miserably, and he has to pay with his job.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:28 PM) This just in: Joe Paterno is now more hated than Osama Bin Laden. GMAB. He might've been a little too trusting (of people he had every right to put trust in) and naive, but a villain/demon who supports rape? lol. C'mon, add something to the conversation. This is just derailing the argument.